Yoomp conversion experiment

All 680x0 related coding posts in this section please.

Moderators: simonsunnyboy, Mug UK, Zorro 2, Moderator Team

qwe
Atari nerd
Atari nerd
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby qwe » Fri May 03, 2013 8:01 pm

Hi friends.
I think Yoomp is the best game for the Atari 8-bit; I made ​​an attempt to convert the game on ST platform but unfortunately with bad results.
I precalculate data in the best possible way for the Atari ST but my prototype is terribly slow.
The Atari 8-bit must draw 6400 pixels while the Atari ST 25600 pixels.
Probably 25600 pixels are too much for even an Atari ST.
I am a beginner but maybe Leonard is able to make the real-time animation of the tube.
In any case, I share my sources, any advice is welcome to improve performance.
Thank you for reading.

P.S. I have converted into assembler the algorithm explained in this tutorial:http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch17.html
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
simonsunnyboy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5032
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:36 pm
Location: Friedrichshafen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Sat May 04, 2013 5:46 am

You will probably need to implement a fast c2p routine and you can reduce the resolution of the tunnel from 320x200 to 140*80 (2x2 chunky pixels) or so. Sprites can be in full 320x200 details. I'd also suggest to reduce the tunnel to 2 bitplanes / 4 colors.

Interesting project and the game definitly deserves a port! Good luck on your work!
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

Stay cool, stay Atari!

1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby bullis1 » Mon May 06, 2013 7:46 pm

I know it must be possible to get a fast 2D tunnel on ST. I've seen the effect many times but at the moment the only example that comes to mind is the WarptYMe intro http://www.creamhq.de/ymrockerz/downloads.php
Member of the Atari Legend team

AtariZoll
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2978
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby AtariZoll » Tue May 07, 2013 9:04 am

This is rather 3D tunnel, even if moves in one dimension only. With 2D you could use simple scroll.
There is actually game on ST with it - maybe pale try to convert Yoomp ? : Phoenix by ERE Informatique . Tunnel is in with vector graphic, drawn btw. by Line-A .

Looking source of this, I can say that there is space for make it much faster. Setcolor for each pixel with slow shifts seems not good idea.
I'm pretty sure that it can go at least with 12.5 fps in full ST low res.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby bullis1 » Tue May 07, 2013 11:34 am

AtariZoll wrote:This is rather 3D tunnel, even if moves in one dimension only. With 2D you could use simple scroll.

Whoops, should have been clearer. I meant 2D as in it is not a polygon/vector tunnel, but a distortion that appears 3D but really has no z-depth. Either way it doesn't matter I guess. I just hope qwe can get the result he wants.
Member of the Atari Legend team

qwe
Atari nerd
Atari nerd
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby qwe » Thu May 09, 2013 7:02 am

Probably draw the tunnel pixel by pixel is not a good idea but I don't know other algorithms to do that.

distantminds
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:03 pm

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby distantminds » Thu May 09, 2013 9:11 am

hello :)

looking at yoomp on youtube.. this is very much possible i think..

the basic tunnel effect is a fixed offset map affair, which can be optimised heavily (which is why you see this kind of effect in ST/Falcon demos)..

for speed you'll have to do chunky pixels (160x100)

you essentially bypass the C2P stage by hardcoding the offsets into the tunnel texture directly into your screendraw routine..

furthermore, you need to convert your texture into friendly pre-shifted pixel packets(!) for the routine to use directly.

if a0-a3 is your preshifted 'texture' formatted to chunky pixels already, and a4 is your screenbase:

then your screendraw is simply:

move.l xxxx(a0),d0 ;pixel 1+2
or.l xxxx(a1),d0 ;pixel 3+4
or.l xxxx(a2),d0 ;pixel 5+6
or.l xxxx(a3),d0 ;pixel 7+8
movep.l d0,xxxx(a4) ;write 8 pixels
movep.l do,xxxx(a4) ;next same 8 pixels to next scanline

so you generate a massive block of code above, and 'poke' for every position the offset into the texture, and poke the destination screen addresses (xxxx(a4))..

to scroll through the tunnel, you change your start offset into the texture.


of course, you're not scrolling a texture, you're scrolling a tile map.. so would need some thought, but essentially you'd have to regenerate the texture on the fly, shouldn't be too expensive to populate 1 row of tiles, over a number of frames..

you could optimise the screendraw further by reducing the c2p code block to only the dirty area drawn.


i think it's possible anyway with some effort. Ray of TSCC wrote a really nice series of docs about C2P and how to do away with it altogether for these kinds of fx, i can't find it online but it must be out there somewhere.

good luck

:cheers:

User avatar
bullis1
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby bullis1 » Thu May 09, 2013 11:51 am

DHS has various docs relating to the subject: http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=democreation
However, it seems like the chunky-to-planar docs offered are for Falcon :|
I could have sworn someone on DHS wrote about c2p on ST(E). Maybe it's gone due to the atari.org server crash a short while ago?
Member of the Atari Legend team

User avatar
Cyprian
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby Cyprian » Thu May 09, 2013 12:09 pm

bullis1 wrote:I could have sworn someone on DHS wrote about c2p on ST(E).


Ray from TSCC done that. His website is unavailable for several years but fortunately is cached on archive.org:

c2p part I (st):
http://web.archive.org/web/200702081752 ... /c2p_I.htm

c2p part II (st):
http://web.archive.org/web/200702061202 ... c2p_II.htm

avoiding c2p (st):
http://web.archive.org/web/200702061203 ... no_c2p.htm
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2401
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby christos » Thu May 09, 2013 1:14 pm

bullis1 wrote:DHS has various docs relating to the subject: http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=democreation
However, it seems like the chunky-to-planar docs offered are for Falcon :|
I could have sworn someone on DHS wrote about c2p on ST(E). Maybe it's gone due to the atari.org server crash a short while ago?


Yeah kind of makes sense since the falcon already has a chunky screenmode and since c2p for 256 colours would be quite similar as to what you do on the st.
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
My Atari blog

STOT Email address: stot(NoSPAM)atari(DOT)org

User avatar
Cyprian
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby Cyprian » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:19 am

qwe wrote:Hi friends.
I think Yoomp is the best game for the Atari 8-bit; I made ​​an attempt to convert the game on ST platform but unfortunately with bad results...

There is a similar game on ST - Psyborg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDb0ndXAi8
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

qwe
Atari nerd
Atari nerd
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby qwe » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi friends,
I have good news !!!
I implemented a very efficient algorithm to draw the tube at the same speed as the 8-bit atari .
Now I can proceed to the conversion of the game.
The next step will be to synchronize the tiles with the ball.
I think the hardest part will be the conversion of music.

User avatar
dhedberg
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:36 am
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby dhedberg » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:43 pm

Great initiative! Looking forward playing the final thing!
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo MORE.

User avatar
thomas3
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: the people's republic of south yorkshire, uk.

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby thomas3 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:03 pm

Did you use c2p in the end?

qwe
Atari nerd
Atari nerd
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby qwe » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:24 pm

I don't use c2p.
I don't even know if and when the game will be completed.
The game uses very complicated algorithms.
To move the ball I need the same algorithms that are used to rotate the cubes; the ball goes around the z-axis and when the ball actually rises you have to think of a point moving away from the screen (when the z-coordinate increases).
For the moment, be content by the game engine.
YOOMP004.zip
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

wietze
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:52 pm

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby wietze » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 pm

On chunky to planar:
http://alive.atari.org/alive8/c2p.php

My research (most of it, until further releases) on chunky to planar:
https://bitbucket.org/spkr/c2pdev/src/default/c2p.s

I think people are thinking along the lines of using the above c2p code to:
- tunnel can be done using an offset map (that creates a tunnel/map) --> http://madteam.atari8.info/index.php?prod=fx (texture mapped tunnel)
- and the yoomp tiles can be part of a changing texture that you map, to make a moving or rotating tunnel

This way you get zooming (progressing through tube) and tube rotation (setting offset into texture for rotation) as a basic mechanic of your graphics drawing; like https://youtu.be/QkRUITsFSXs?t=93 , but then with yoomp texture (and more variation)

-wietze

User avatar
simonsunnyboy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5032
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:36 pm
Location: Friedrichshafen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:03 pm

As long as it gives a working implementation with atleast 25fps, I'm happy to see a working port.
Just bought the new C64 port on cartridge and it's nice!

Good luck on your project!
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

Stay cool, stay Atari!

1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

insane
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:42 am
Location: Frankfurt (Oder), Germany
Contact:

Re: Yoomp conversion experiment

Postby insane » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Nice! I've done my own yoomp experiments back in 2013 but never bothered to finish them.
See the intro in fujiology for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ieox47axhE or http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=62121 for the 50fps version.
Best of luck to you! I've attached my last wip build from october 2013. Had some troubles with my sprite engine and haven't bothered since.
insane/tSCc
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
.tSCc. - low-tech atari cyberpunks since 1990 | http://insane.tscc.de


Social Media

     

Return to “680x0”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests