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mcoder
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Re: yop

Postby mcoder » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:52 am

C-Rem wrote:MCODER : u like optimisation ? Tired to fix pc code ? yeah it's cool ... we've one cool challenge around : Try to beat leonard with his sprite world record :D

i'm sure Léonard will appreciate the compétition !


Sorry, but I'll pass...

I'm currently passing all my all work in public domain, and will start a distributed project on the PC (with generated assembly code !).
I was a professional coder since 1984, and did some unreleased games on Oric/Atmos, Atari ST and Megadrive MegaCD (among other computers).
I also have a ton of documentations, that will be donated to the last fans of these computers...

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Re: yop

Postby bullis1 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:37 pm

mcoder wrote:
I was a professional coder since 1984, and did some unreleased games on ...Megadrive MegaCD ...
I also have a ton of documentations, that will be donated to the last fans of these computers...


Sorry that this is a bit off topic, but I'm extremely interested in Sega stuff (especially Sega CD and 32X). What games are you talking about?

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Re: yop

Postby terence » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:10 pm

mcoder wrote:I'm currently passing all my all work in public domain, and will start a distributed project on the PC (with generated assembly code !).


and me, i am interested in that part.

tell us more please :)

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Re: yop

Postby Zorro 2 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:24 am

mcoder wrote:I was a professional coder since 1984, and did some unreleased games on Oric/Atmos, Atari ST and Megadrive MegaCD (among other computers).
I also have a ton of documentations, that will be donated to the last fans of these computers...

I'm very interesting if you have some "reliquas" like that ;)
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Re: yop

Postby mcoder » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:36 pm

terence wrote:
mcoder wrote:I'm currently passing all my all work in public domain, and will start a distributed project on the PC (with generated assembly code !).


and me, i am interested in that part.

tell us more please :)


I released 2 weeks ago Timecop MegaCD (unreleased game !).

Full ISO (200Mb) here:

http://euler.free.fr/MegaCD/TimeCop.zip

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Re: yop

Postby mcoder » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:40 pm

Zorro 2 wrote:
mcoder wrote:I was a professional coder since 1984, and did some unreleased games on Oric/Atmos, Atari ST and Megadrive MegaCD (among other computers).
I also have a ton of documentations, that will be donated to the last fans of these computers...

I'm very interesting if you have some "reliquas" like that ;)


I gave my Oric cassettes to a guy who is digitalizing them.
I wrote 2 unreleased games (Lunar Lander and One).

On the ST, I still have Snow Brothers. I hope I'll find the disks, but I have a large set of disks, and no comment on the content :-(

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Re: yop

Postby bullis1 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:44 pm

mcoder wrote:
terence wrote:
mcoder wrote:I'm currently passing all my all work in public domain, and will start a distributed project on the PC (with generated assembly code !).


and me, i am interested in that part.

tell us more please :)


I released 2 weeks ago Timecop MegaCD (unreleased game !).

Full ISO (200Mb) here:

http://euler.free.fr/MegaCD/TimeCop.zip


No f'n way! I played a beta of that a while back and thought it never made it past that point. And here you are with a more complete (finished?) version. I'm hopefully burning and playing this in my Sega CD tonight. Thanks a ton.

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Postby nativ » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:40 pm

Can i burn Mega cd software from the atari?
(i have megaCD2)
what software's needed pcwise?

Thanks

Top1 knocking out all your code Mcoder!
Have you done much STe stuff?
How likely is it that someone oneday will make a megadrive/mega cd emu on falcon? or is hardware to different?

thanks again!

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Postby mcoder » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:13 pm

nativ wrote:Can i burn Mega cd software from the atari?
(i have megaCD2)
what software's needed pcwise?


I don't know.

nativ wrote:Thanks

Top1 knocking out all your code Mcoder!
Have you done much STe stuff?
How likely is it that someone oneday will make a megadrive/mega cd emu on falcon? or is hardware to different?

thanks again!


I have done very few code on STe.
STE was already dying when I stopped coding games for the ST.

BTW, burn the ISO with CDRwin, but an emulator should work fine (there are musical tracks).

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Postby bullis1 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:58 pm

Mcoder: I have a small question for you. Who composed the music for TimeCop? BIB.TXT does not contain full credits unfortunately. Some of it is very good, and track06 reminds me of Chris Huelsbeck (but I know he wasn't the musician). Thanks in advance for your response.

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Postby mcoder » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:05 pm

bullis1 wrote:Mcoder: I have a small question for you. Who composed the music for TimeCop? BIB.TXT does not contain full credits unfortunately. Some of it is very good, and track06 reminds me of Chris Huelsbeck (but I know he wasn't the musician). Thanks in advance for your response.


The author is David de Gruttola, known also as David Cage, founder of Quantic Dreams (I worked with them on Omikron the Nomad Soul).

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Postby Marcer » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:19 am

where is my suggestion to code an IK+ 2????
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Postby mcoder » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:04 pm

Marcer wrote:where is my suggestion to code an IK+ 2????


Are you still drunk ?

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Postby MiggyMog » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:02 pm

I think it's great that people are realising their code for prosperity.

where is my suggestion to code an IK+ 2????


:-) Yeah a version with a paralax floor & Digi music, there is hardly any sprite activity going on for a 16 bit machine. We could get someone to polish the graphics, as for the game code you could ask the guys who done the atari 8 bit or flash conversion reccently as they already looked at the game workings. Maybe we coiuld make the graphics international ;-)

Seriously though, a 20th anniversary edition may not be a bad idea & easier to acomplish than say a scrolling platformer in a limited time frame?
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Postby PaulB » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:04 pm

Marcer wrote:where is my suggestion to code an IK+ 2????


Lol! It's here http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12146&start=30

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Postby unseenmenace » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:16 pm

MiggyMog wrote:We could get someone to polish the graphics

I'd be up for that 8)
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Postby bullis1 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:33 pm

@Mcoder: Was an ST port of "Liquid Kids" by Taito ever planned? It was completed (but unreleased) on Amiga as you're probably already aware. It had been released in recent years. Apparently it was converted by Ocean France, which is why I ask. I'm just curious.

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Postby mcoder » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:49 pm

bullis1 wrote:@Mcoder: Was an ST port of "Liquid Kids" by Taito ever planned? It was completed (but unreleased) on Amiga as you're probably already aware. It had been released in recent years. Apparently it was converted by Ocean France, which is why I ask. I'm just curious.


I'm not sure.
Liquid Kids was finished on the Amiga, and Alain Boisramé has the responsibility to port it.
Alas, Ocean France shut down just before the game was finished on the Amiga, and Michel Janicki was paid to finish it as a freelancer.
So, I have no news about this game (even though I worked with Michel later at Cryo).

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Postby bullis1 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:42 pm

mcoder wrote:I'm not sure.
Liquid Kids was finished on the Amiga, and Alain Boisramé has the responsibility to port it.
Alas, Ocean France shut down just before the game was finished on the Amiga, and Michel Janicki was paid to finish it as a freelancer.
So, I have no news about this game (even though I worked with Michel later at Cryo).


Ah thanks. It sounds likely that an ST port was started, but very unlikely that it was finished. If I ever happen across Mr. Boisramé, I'll have to ask him.

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Postby Desty » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:20 am

mcoder wrote:(coder and musician are bad positions in game programming)

Hmm, I don't know about games coder, since I've never programmed any (although professional coding I've done so far is certainly more boring than my ST days for the most part), but why do you say the part of a musician is so bad in the game industry?

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Postby mcoder » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:22 am

Desty wrote:
mcoder wrote:(coder and musician are bad positions in game programming)

Hmm, I don't know about games coder, since I've never programmed any (although professional coding I've done so far is certainly more boring than my ST days for the most part), but why do you say the part of a musician is so bad in the game industry?


It's because of money.

Ok, let's take an example: David de Gruttola, aka David Cage.

He had a success in a pop hit in the late 80s, which gave him enough money to buy his own studio (sorry, he never told me about this song).

In the early 90s, he did some musics for some Cryo's games, but he said that it was not financially interesting.

At Cryo, he met several people, and since he wanted to make adventure games, he took several people from Cryo (when it collapsed), and started a company called Quantic Dreams.

So, there are several drawbacks of being a musician in videogames:
1) you don't get reknown
2) it's not well paid
3) it's difficult to enter this work, since you need to prove that you are a good musician before
4) either you are an employee (thus not earning royalties), or a freelancer (but don't expect to earn money, except if an album is released from your music)
5) doing music for videogames takes a lot of time (we had an inhouse musician at Quantic, who worked on the musics for more than 12 months, this means 1 month per music !)

Compared to that, being a coder seems like a dream !

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Postby bullis1 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:29 pm

mcoder wrote: 1) you don't get reknown


You have a number of good points but that is simply not true. Game musicians get a lot of praise, press, and fans. I would often buy games based purely on the musician and I'm not alone in this.

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Postby earx » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:52 pm

i don't know if coder is a bad position in the games industry. the wages ain't bad, for sure. but the hours are, i've heard. and maybe there is more and more specialisation these days which limits the hardcore algorithm coding to r&d positions.

musicians in the gamesbiz: some made a great career out of it. take scavenger or jesper kyd. they are now composers for orchestra's of 50 ppl. also rob hubbard and jeroen tel. they are now world famous even in "art" circles. i know composers from PS2 game soundtracks but wouldn't be able to name just one of the coders involved..

can you name coders that have achieved this stardom? minter, perhaps? but he's on a gradual decline, and except from a cult following, he's a bit of a loner in the industry.. there's carmack, and maybe that jerk from half-life. and that's it. no star coders for the rest.

but another side of the story is time follin. which in my eyes has all the talent (even directing talent, judging from his movies) but never built up the name that others got. that's why he quit doing games music. he probably wondered why he didn't choose to go into film music alot earlier..

my 2 cents in this coder vs musician vs gamesbiz discussion

btw. i tried to get into the biz as a coder, but i guess at 29 years of age it's not a wise choice, esp seeing i only made 1 lousy game before and mainly focus on demo coding on long obsolete machines (atari! :)))

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Postby mcoder » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:56 am

earx wrote:i don't know if coder is a bad position in the games industry. the wages ain't bad, for sure. but the hours are, i've heard. and maybe there is more and more specialisation these days which limits the hardcore algorithm coding to r&d positions.


Yes, the interesting job is done in R&D, but there is very few places for that, and they take experienced people for that (for example, very few software houses code their own 3D engine).

About the pay, it's miserable compared to the amount of work.
About the number of working hours, it really depends on you. In France, I kept working 40 hours every week, but people around me were working 50+ (being paid less). I was more experienced, but the pay was low anyway (I'm earning a lot more now that I'm in 'professional' programming).
The problem is not working 40 or 50 hours, it's using your time wisely.
I saw a lot of hard work go to the bin because it wasn't used in the game.
Also, it's very harassing to finish a game. People believe that they have to work 60+ to finish a game, that's why there are long endings (finishing a game takes several weeks), and in general, everybody is so bored that they leave the company at the end (I think around 30% leave the company at the end of the game !).
Tension is terrible during the last phase of the game.

earx wrote:musicians in the gamesbiz: some made a great career out of it. take scavenger or jesper kyd. they are now composers for orchestra's of 50 ppl. also rob hubbard and jeroen tel. they are now world famous even in "art" circles. i know composers from PS2 game soundtracks but wouldn't be able to name just one of the coders involved..


I mean: if you try to earn fame through your work, you're doomed !
I did game programming during 18 years, and am more known for my demo-making past that my own work in games !

earx wrote:can you name coders that have achieved this stardom? minter, perhaps? but he's on a gradual decline, and except from a cult following, he's a bit of a loner in the industry.. there's carmack, and maybe that jerk from half-life. and that's it. no star coders for the rest.


I don't care about the very well known people, since I don't know them personally.
Since I worked with a lot of coders, I try to follow my favorite ones. I'm pretty glad to have seen them debuting and working now as reknown coders in France (Pierre Adane, Claude Levastre, Didier Malenfant, Olivier Nallet, amongst others).

earx wrote:my 2 cents in this coder vs musician vs gamesbiz discussion


Passion is nice when you are young, but it's stupid when you are 30+.

earx wrote:btw. i tried to get into the biz as a coder, but i guess at 29 years of age it's not a wise choice, esp seeing i only made 1 lousy game before and mainly focus on demo coding on long obsolete machines (atari! :)))



It's true that it's easier to begin when you are young (I started at 19 !).
Now, I'm 42, and am not interested anymore in game programming.
However, I love puzzle making, and my hobby is to create puzzles. I had no chance to get money from my passion at this moment, but it's not what matters.

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Postby MiggyMog » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:55 pm

However, I love puzzle making, and my hobby is to create puzzles. I had no chance to get money from my passion at this moment, but it's not what matters.



I don't know about not being able to make money from puzzles. My three boys are about to get puzzle related toys for Christmas in one form or another :D

Rubiks done not too bad out of it ?


I think another interesting area is real life research, emulating physics & Biology etc in computers seems to be a big thing in terms of predicting how to deal with the worlds problems, the better we can do that the better we could safeguard the world for the future generations.

I read a couple of articles about coders who had made there physics engines too real for games and had to bend the rules to make it fun again!

Those 'too real' engines would have really useful applications in other fields?

If you think you are too old for passion at 42 why not teach the next passionate generation of kids who are just learning about all the stuff you know? I think this could rejuvenate your own interests?
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