Pasti images that currently don’t work.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:08 pm

I recently tried to do a play-through of "Future Wars - Time Travelers" that I had imaged using SCP and Aufit. Unfortunately the game crashes as soon as I have to load data from disk 3. :(
First I thought if was because of a bad dump of that disk, but I get the exact same behavior using a different set of disks. I even tried the pasti files located at Atarimania, and these also crashes at the exact same place. :?

Im using Steem SSE 3.6.0 with pasti.dll 0.2h
1.04 UK tos.

I have included a snapshot for steem when prompted to insert disk 3 and all my pasti images to Future Wars, both my two sets and Atarimania's.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ys56lwfx8at6td/Cldjsfwzo_
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:43 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I dealt with Combo Racer, using STX images at AM. There is no error, and here works with Steem 3.2+Pasti 02.F . But it failed once with with German TOS 2.06 (first check today) - another check passed . Tried with UK TOS 1.04, UK 2.06 - worked. I don't remember any problems with it earlier.
Copy protection is on tracks 0 and 79.


There's no problem with the regular version but with the compilation mentioned: 4 Wheel Drive

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:47 pm

greatguy wrote:I recently tried to do a play-through of "Future Wars - Time Travelers" that I had imaged using SCP and Aufit. Unfortunately the game crashes as soon as I have to load data from disk 3. :(
First I thought if was because of a bad dump of that disk, but I get the exact same behavior using a different set of disks. I even tried the pasti files located at Atarimania, and these also crashes at the exact same place. :?

Im using Steem SSE 3.6.0 with pasti.dll 0.2h
1.04 UK tos.

I have included a snapshot for steem when prompted to insert disk 3 and all my pasti images to Future Wars, both my two sets and Atarimania's.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ys56lwfx8at6td/Cldjsfwzo_


I tried with IPF instead of STX, same crash.
There's something odd with your config: STE + TOS104. It should be STF or TOS >= 106. Who knows if that's the reason?
There's also a manual protection which stops my efforts!

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:17 pm

Oh, I didn't notice that I used TOS104 with STE config. I'll try it tomorrow with 1.06 instead.
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:55 pm

greatguy wrote:Oh, I didn't notice that I used TOS104 with STE config. I'll try it tomorrow with 1.06 instead.


Maybe I should place a warning for such config.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:13 am

Ah, I thought that 4 Wheel Drive is some other game :D
Looked that Combo Racer from compilation. There is lot of protection - encrypted code, trace mode, etc . It reads tracks 47 and 79, and looks some data. As I see all that is passed, and after that starter code decrypts game's real launcher, what is TOS executable. And there is bus error when tries to relocate that - add.l d0,(a0) when a0 is odd - as result of bad reloc. table start given. You may see concrete bad data at loc. $B8DA - it is $462, but should be $45E, as code length. With that change game starts, title pic appears, but crashes soon. To have it at above location you need to set Steem to 1MB RAM and use UK TOS 1.04 . Set breakpoint to $BD70 - this is where copies executable code to final dest, after what reloc. starts.
All this seems to me as just bad game release, not tested well. Of course, we will have certain answer only if someone can try original on real HW. or someone takes more time to trace all this. I don't see any nasty CPU code, what would confuse emulators.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:47 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:I tried with IPF instead of STX, same crash.
There's something odd with your config: STE + TOS104. It should be STF or TOS >= 106. Who knows if that's the reason?
There's also a manual protection which stops my efforts!


Have played the game to the same point with STE config and TOS162 but that didn't help much. :( Still crashes when accessing Disk 3. :?:
I have placed two snapshots at the same location as the other one. (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ys56lwfx8at6td/Cldjsfwzo_)
One snapshot is after the copyprotection is passed and the other is where the game asks for disk #3.

I'll try a play-through with STF config and TOS104 next, and see if that resolves the problem.
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:49 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:
greatguy wrote:Oh, I didn't notice that I used TOS104 with STE config. I'll try it tomorrow with 1.06 instead.


Maybe I should place a warning for such config.


Thats a good idea. But I dont think that you have to place that first in line on your "todo"-list. :)
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:56 pm

greatguy wrote:
Steven Seagal wrote:I tried with IPF instead of STX, same crash.
There's something odd with your config: STE + TOS104. It should be STF or TOS >= 106. Who knows if that's the reason?
There's also a manual protection which stops my efforts!


Have played the game to the same point with STE config and TOS162 but that didn't help much. :( Still crashes when accessing Disk 3. :?:
I have placed two snapshots at the same location as the other one. (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ys56lwfx8at6td/Cldjsfwzo_)
One snapshot is after the copyprotection is passed and the other is where the game asks for disk #3.

I'll try a play-through with STF config and TOS104 next, and see if that resolves the problem.

I get the same behaviour with STF + TOS104, don't really know what to try next!! (Placed snapshots on my dropbox)
Any ideas?

Edit:
Strange...I got it to work one time and one time only with STF + TOS104.

Edit2:
Now it seems like I've got a way around the problem. If I try with disk 1 first and then changes to disk 3 it works with both STE and STF snapshots!! Strange behavior. !!
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:37 pm

I think that it is Pasti error. I had same cases with no detecting disk change when Pasti was active. Just to note that it did not crash by me with SE TOS 1.62, just did not accept disk 3 without juggling.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:15 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I think that it is Pasti error. I had same cases with no detecting disk change when Pasti was active. Just to note that it did not crash by me with SE TOS 1.62, just did not accept disk 3 without juggling.


Don't pin it on Pasti, it acts the same when you substitute IPF disks (3: crash; 1 then 3: OK), let's blame the combination TOS/program, or Steem of course.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:17 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Ah, I thought that 4 Wheel Drive is some other game :D
Looked that Combo Racer from compilation. There is lot of protection - encrypted code, trace mode, etc . It reads tracks 47 and 79, and looks some data. As I see all that is passed, and after that starter code decrypts game's real launcher, what is TOS executable. And there is bus error when tries to relocate that - add.l d0,(a0) when a0 is odd - as result of bad reloc. table start given. You may see concrete bad data at loc. $B8DA - it is $462, but should be $45E, as code length. With that change game starts, title pic appears, but crashes soon. To have it at above location you need to set Steem to 1MB RAM and use UK TOS 1.04 . Set breakpoint to $BD70 - this is where copies executable code to final dest, after what reloc. starts.
All this seems to me as just bad game release, not tested well. Of course, we will have certain answer only if someone can try original on real HW. or someone takes more time to trace all this. I don't see any nasty CPU code, what would confuse emulators.


Thx for this research. I noticed Pasti set STR LD (lost data) on track 47, that's why I thought it was bad.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:53 am

As I said it did not crash by me . And what I told was about disk change recognition - where Pasti has problems, and that problem is even discussed here in some threads.

Now, I looked little more: Future Wars is not copy protected at all. So, no reason to play from STX or IPF images. This is TOS dependent game using lot of TOS calls, so maybe running it on Swedish TOS is not best idea. Best would be to do test with ST images - then can exclude Pasti (turn it off), and test with UK TOS 1.04 ( STE TOS is not best idea too) .
It crashed when I tried with Steem SSE and ST image of 3rd floppy. But it must be not Steem's fault. I would rather bet on game code and/or TOS version problem. I will try to play it little from start but need codewheel .

FW_STs.zip
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Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:22 am

AtariZoll wrote:As I said it did not crash by me . And what I told was about disk change recognition - where Pasti has problems, and that problem is even discussed here in some threads.

Now, I looked little more: Future Wars is not copy protected at all. So, no reason to play from STX or IPF images. This is TOS dependent game using lot of TOS calls, so maybe running it on Swedish TOS is not best idea. Best would be to do test with ST images - then can exclude Pasti (turn it off), and test with UK TOS 1.04 ( STE TOS is not best idea too) .
It crashed when I tried with Steem SSE and ST image of 3rd floppy. But it must be not Steem's fault. I would rather bet on game code and/or TOS version problem. I will try to play it little from start but need codewheel .

I have uploaded the manual for FW with code-images to my dropbox. Feel free to fetch it from there. :) I can even upload the SCP images if that would help in any way.

And for your information: I can confirm that my images works 100%( except for the disk3 crash mentioned above ) as I have played it from beginning till the end. :D
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:32 pm

I did not suspect at all that your images may be bad. It is visible looking Pasti files with examiner, and I even compared all files with my old hard disk fix - and all are 100% same. Game is btw. well runnable from hard disk - copy all files in some DIR, and may run fine.
What I experienced is that it worked from Steem GEMDOS hard disk under TOS 2.06 - short test until entering building. When started from ST image under TOS 2.06 it crashed right after passing manual protection. Then I did same under TOS 1.02, and it started well.
So, my conclusion, based on seeing many French SW is that this is 99% TOS version and not really good code related problem. Most likely game code does not saves all used registers before TOS calls, and that was OK with TOS 1.00-1.02 . But in later TOS versions it is not OK with a0-a3, d0-d3. Here all crashes happen (what I saw recently) because a0=0 .
Should test under TOS 1.02 .
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:42 pm

Future Wars should work on Tos106 or later, at least according to the original. Label on the box clearly says ST/STE compatible. But to be 100% certain I will play it on STF and Tos1.02 :D
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:27 pm

Yes, it says that is STE compatible - I guess they spent whole 3 minutes for testing on some STE - it works, hurra ! :D

Here is very similar case, just crashes happen much more times, and soon after starting it: Ultimate Ride. I tried different cracks under diverse TOS versions. Really have no clue under which it can work - 2 diverse cracks fail Only Automation crack is what works. And it has hooked file depacking code , where saves all CPU registers before filesystem functions - so they will be not changed.
Anyone knows more about Ultimate Ride under Steem ? What settings for Medway Boys, Replicants cracks and original ?
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:42 pm

Well, that's not necessarily the truth as there are STE specific material in the game. STE version has sampled music instead of ordinary YM music at a few location in the game so I do believe that more thorough testing had to be done before release!
But I could be wrong! :wink:
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:43 am

I did some more testing. And it is certainly emulation error in case of Ultimate Ride. Likely, then same error causes troubles with Future Wars too.
Error happens in Hatari too, just to mention.
I tested on real Mega STE, so TOS 2.06 with 2 versions: 1 HD floppy image with all files, and 3 floppy images - same as original, only that manual protection is removed. Both worked well on real HW.
In case of 1 HD version it asked for bike disk, and after pressing fire continued with same floppy (of course) . On emulators it crashes before that disk change request, after doing file read (trap #1, $ 3F - saw in Debugger, and SSE shows it too) . I tried different TOS versions, slow disk mode, but nothing helped. Will write Steem bug report to S. Seagal ..
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:16 pm

Problem solved, and I'm sure that by Future Wars it is same cause: disable floppy B :D - it was enabled, as is visible in snapshots .
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby greatguy » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:24 pm

Do you think that this a emulator specific problem or would we get the same kind of crashed on real hardware with a extra drive connected?
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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:00 pm

You need to place floppy 3 in second drive, then will work with Steem without crash - talking about Ultimate Ride. In case of Future Wars something like it too - experiment little.
I can not test it with 2 drives at moment, but I'm pretty sure that it will crash on real HW too, if you leave drive B empty. Code is just sloppy. For instance concrete crash by Ultimate Ride happens because it tries to open 1 file on floppy 3, and does not checks at all was it successful (before rhat does not check at all is there floppy inserted ) - then gives command to read file, and again does not checks did it read something - after that crash is almost imminent. As in many cases, game code is poor . Maybe you should look manual - possible that there stays that must fill all available floppy drives :D
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:15 pm

Image

According to this it probably would crash on HW too. Disabling drive B: is definitely one thing to try when you have drive issues. In Steem you just click on the drive icon.

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Re: Pasti images that currently don’t work.

Postby Steven Seagal » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:32 pm

Ian wrote:4 Wheel Drive compilation from Gremlin, Combo racer from the boot disk doesn't work, everything else on the disk(s) do though.

Have tried using the latest steem (tos 1.0 ST and tos 1.06 STE) and also saint.

Saint crashes the emulator, steem resets emulated ST.

I have no technical ability, so if anyone would like to look into this feel free.

I will post any more I find in this thread to if thats OK?


As an update, the image is fine, contrary to what I thought.
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