Some ideas about Pasti

In this forum you'll find more information about the Pasti & VAPI Tools and the Preservation Project built around these tools. Come on in to find out more about it and discuss these projects.

Moderators: Mug UK, ijor, Moderator Team

ppera

Some ideas about Pasti

Postby ppera » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:40 pm

I see many of Pasti images of protected games, where only 1 sector (or 1 track) is protected, non-standard. Such protections are little later Rob Northen ones, or protections in Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back.
As Pasti images are relative large, and work slower in Steem, I think that it would be good to make some 'advanced pasti' mode of imaging. It would be that all standard tracks, without protection will be preserved (imaged) as raw content (as in ST, MSA). Only track with protection would be in special, Pasti format. Of course it requires some new definitions, header, but all it should be not hard to implement. By imaging user may to set which track to analyze, and PRG will say is it with protection....
Something like that... Result would be much smaller STX file, only some 20KB longer than regular ST image of same floppy.

User avatar
alexh
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2595
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: UK - Oxford
Contact:

Re: Some ideas about Pasti

Postby alexh » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:31 pm

ppera wrote:As Pasti images are relative large

Yeah, but not in the grand scheme of things.

ppera wrote:and work slower in Steem

??

The idea seems a good one, but will it be possible to write an analyzer which presents the options to the user in a manner which will make it almost foolproof?

Is both the PaSTi imager and plugin closed source?

ppera

Re: Some ideas about Pasti

Postby ppera » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:31 pm

When Pasti is active, work with emulated floppy is slower.
Foolproof ? Nothing is 100% sure. For instance we know that Pasti can not imaging everything. Point is that there is a lot of titles for which some people exactly knows where is the protection. I have some floppies with Rob Norten protection. There is always only protection on first track, sector 6 or 7. Such is Millennium 2.2, Voyager, Chaos Strikes Back etc...
Only almost 100% safe way to check is playing game intensively, completing all levels.

ijor
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3144
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 7:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Some ideas about Pasti

Postby ijor » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:07 pm

ppera wrote:I see many of Pasti images of protected games, where only 1 sector (or 1 track) is protected, non-standard. Such protections are little later Rob Northen ones, or protections in Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back.
As Pasti images are relative large, and work slower in Steem, I think that it would be good to make some 'advanced pasti' mode of imaging. It would be that all standard tracks, without protection will be preserved (imaged) as raw content (as in ST, MSA). Only track with protection would be in special, Pasti format. Of course it requires some new definitions, header, but all it should be not hard to implement. By imaging user may to set which track to analyze, and PRG will say is it with protection....Something like that... Result would be much smaller STX file, only some 20KB longer than regular ST image of same floppy.


I considered something like that from the start, and there is actually some built-in support for this. See that there is an option in the Pasti Configuration dialog "Always fast" and a checkbox "Unprotected tracks". It is not implemented (the checkbox is ignored), but that was the idea.

The problem is that is not trivial to detect which tracks are protected and which are not. There might be some hidden protection. And there are some games that depend on accurate timing even on non-protected tracks. Sometimes it is on purpose (you can consider it part of the protection), sometimes it is not.

It is almost unfeasible to detect this automatically in all cases. I considered adding some "comment" records manually, either to the image, or to a companion file. That could include clues such as the one you sugggest, and also about other things, such as that this program version needs a specific TOS version.

The image size is not a problem, and you can see that some post-processed images are much smaller.

ppera

Re: Some ideas about Pasti

Postby ppera » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:41 pm

Certainly automatic detection is not really possible in most of cases. It's clear.
Of course it is good idea to add comments about what TOS version game works (or works not), but it is something what person who makes images can not check in many cases. in any cases, adding comment about what tracks are really checked by imaging for protection is almost a must, for case of some problems by later usage.

I see pretty large sizes of STX images, what I downloaded. Dungeon Master some 1.7 MB ??? It is 400KB floppy. Do they image both sides of single sided floppies and such things...

So, can we expect some updates for Pasti in near future ? :wink:

User avatar
dlfrsilver
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1421
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:41 am
Contact:

Re: Some ideas about Pasti

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:41 pm

Images are big because of their structures. You can have a game not big but using a protection that needs big structure. This structures when imaged take space. ;)
Now SPS France representative since the 19th of June 2014. Proud to be an SPS member !


Social Media

     

Return to “Pasti & VAPI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest