Uncrunched Games

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Methanoid
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Uncrunched Games

Postby Methanoid » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:45 pm

Given that lots of games can be played now very well on emulators such as SAINT or PacifiST it strikes me as not always necessary to emulate the slow decrunching of games from compacts.

Anyone know how to or is willing to uncrunch a few?

Example: Deuteros is on PP100. Its a great game but very heavily crunched to fit on one disk using Automation Packer I think. The menu disk has lots of multi-coloured flashing and takes time to decrunch.

I'd like a full uncrunched one that I can put on HD or could I fake a HD-Floppy perhaps and then play it that bit quicker?

I'm sure some uncrunching would also aid compatibility on some machines and Falcon's in particular.

Anyone got a view?

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Postby Silver Surfer » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:00 pm

Never bothered me that much... but one idea would be for you to check out those collections like Atari ST Pirate gold, it is availible on the ftps... check out this thread http://www.atari-forum.com/ftopic621.html . I think that both the Pepper ftp and the Atari Shrine has it.

Otherwise I believe there is a program called New Depack made by Mike Watson(?) an eon ago that will depack just about everything.

Silver

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:07 pm

Hi,

It should be possible to decompress a number of packed games, however not all of them!

Early CD’s such as LSD/WNW used one off specific file headers with the depack code included in the loader. These could be depacked but you’d need to know exactly what you were doing. However more standard trap #1 packed games should be unpackable, I’d use Xerud’s Unpack or Mug’s Multi-Depacker, Unpack is available at the PHF site (http://phf.atari.org) - in hacking tools… Multi Depacker should be downloadable from Mug’s own site – http://come.to/muguk .

The problem is that many games arenÂ’t hard disk installable so you would still need to patch the loading code. They often have Drive A access hard coded into the game.

The other problem lies with games :- link-filed, lumped, dackloaded., ziploaded, andyloaded, cameolink, vaploaded, Wandererlinked etc phew! Again all these games canÂ’t be decompressed with a generic depacker like Unpack or Multi-Depack.

I agree that the colour flashing whilst games depack is annoyingÂ…. In the short term you could always NOP out the reference to $ffff8240.w . Thankfully the vast majority of D-Bug games donÂ’t screen flash, plus they use highly optimised depack code which decompresses much faster than the old Automation / LSD packer.

Shw

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Postby Silver Surfer » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:17 pm

Showaddywaddy / D-Bug wrote:Thankfully the vast majority of D-Bug games donÂ’t screen flash, plus they use highly optimised depack code which decompresses much faster than the old Automation / LSD packer.


What packer do you use? Is it the Atomik packer, or?

Silver

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Postby Methanoid » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:17 pm

Thanks guys for such incredibly quick responses.

I'll check all that out. I have also found from this board that my fave game Deuteros is Falcon-fixed but now I just need to find that file and make sure the previous game Millenium 2.2 works on my Falcon.

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:06 pm

Silver:

Depends really.... on the type of data being packed.

I use either Atomik 3.6, Ice 2.4, Speedpacker 3 or UPX 1.24.

People often say UPX is the best... however a recent test shows that's not always the case.

I packed a PRG with various packers results :-

Ice: 75kb
Atomik: 71kb
UPX: 68kb
Speed3: Low Res Block off 70kb
Speed3: Low Res Block on 64kb!

Shw

P.S. Pity there's not an equivalent to the Amiga's XPK-Knight... that packs a file with a number of packing algorithms and uses the best one.

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Postby aktiv8 » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:11 pm

P.S. Pity there's not an equivalent to the Amiga's XPK-Knight... that packs a file with a number of packing algorithms and uses the best one.


Just wondering if it's possible to pack the files on the Amiga using the XPK paker and then depack them using modified source on the ST? I know you can do things like this; for example I'm thinking about the ST code to depack Power Packed data files from the Amiga.

Also, although off at a tangent in direct relevance to what I'm asking, is that old speccy games off later magazine cover tapes were packed on a 16-bit machine and ported back compressed whereby the loader had to be coded on the speccy...

I know this would be a load of hastle, and probably not worth it in many respects, but something for someone to get their teeth into?
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Postby Showaddywaddy » Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:58 pm

To be honest either Spv3, Ice, Atomik or UPX beats practically all Amiga packers (e.g. Stonecracker, PP and LZX). The only one which would cause stiff competition would be XPK-SHRINK , but this takes an age to depack (ala Jam 4 LZH) so I'd never use it :)

I did think about this route, especially as my A1200 can write direct to ST disks AND it's an 030/50mhz :) but ST packers seem to be more efficient.

Shw

P.S. I know LZH easily beats LHA/ZIP but it packers multiple files together rather than individually plus it needs a hefty depack buffer.

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Postby aktiv8 » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:02 pm

That's cool. I thought the idea must have crossed someone's mind at somepoint.

Still glad to see that the ST packers are more efficient...
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Postby Silver Surfer » Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:20 pm

Where can UPX be downloaded?

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:29 pm


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Postby Methanoid » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:02 am

Mr Show(etc)....

This might be a silly question but as Deuteros is my all time fave game (well and Millenium 2.2) I grabbed the Falcon fixed version. Its two 720k disks.

Would it be possible to put onto one 1.44Mb disk as all Falcons have them and this version only works on Falcon anyway?

How much grovelling would it cost?? :wink: :D :?

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:14 am

send it to me and i'll sort it!

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Postby Methanoid » Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:19 am

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=10859

Its here :P

Oh and THANKS... appreciated!

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Postby WayneKerr » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:57 pm

SHW,

Have you tried RNC Mode 1 in your packer(s) test? Quite a few ST games (the origs) used that, such as Magic Boy...and...erm... others whose names escape me right now - the point being the packer gets extremely good results compared to most others (all hail Rob Northen!).

-WK.

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:34 pm

Yeah :) plus I have this packer on my A1200 so it can pack at 50mhz :)

It is extremely efficient, I'm sure Rob had a VERY close look at the packers around at the time. I did use the RNC packer on another mammoth production (answers on a post card) but it still falls short of SPv3.

Shw

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Postby Methanoid » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:45 pm

Shw, you are also an Amiga user?

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Postby Showaddywaddy » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:46 pm

Yep and C64

Shw

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Postby Gryzor » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:58 pm

I think lots of us use multiple platforms... whatever turns you on, really. I have a couple of Amigas (although I don't use them) myself, plus a few Amstrads. I think my Ataris are the least used -I mostly use STeem...

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Postby Methanoid » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:09 pm

Its nice to see... no longer the silly Amiga vs ST wars. I owned both and still do... although the Amiga and ST are being phased out and replaced by an emulation box. The Falcon is a new toy and having some goodies... just got 14Mb sorted... also a powerUp2 coming

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Postby WayneKerr » Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:16 pm

SHW,

I bet packing it on my dual ath2200xp+ is faster than your a1200 :)
PPIBM.EXE, the only way to go...

btw: RNC1 is still used today, it's been found in a few PS2 and GC titles...

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Postby bpadinha » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:14 am

Given that lots of games can be played now very well on emulators such as SAINT or PacifiST it strikes me as not always necessary to emulate the slow decrunching of games from compacts.


Typically, they're even more playable in Steem, and its FAST FORWARD key might be what you were looking for...

bp

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Re:

Postby lp » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:15 am

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Last edited by lp on Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Uncrunched Games

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:13 pm

I would not bother with any Amiga packer. Even if you don't need to change anything in their depackers on Atari - because it is pure CPU code.

For best results - what means good packing ratio, fast depacking and fast packing I use UPX . It still has support for TOS executables. Unfortunately it is only executable SFX packer, and worse, source for NRV packer is not public. But with little trickery it can be used for any file. I pack in Windows, may do it in Linux, and in theory with Atari, but that crashed for me, and I did not care, since it would be very slow anyway. Packing is instant, depacking is about 150-200 KB/sec (counting output length). I can supply simple tools I made for batch packing multiple files, and depacking code src, what is short,

If depacking speed is main interest, I have my code, what depacks about 300 KB/sec, while ratio is worse some 10-20% than with UPX. Plus depacking routine is very short, some 60 bytes.

UPX is better in ratio than popular and slow ICE. Basically, I did not see anything fast on Atari except those 2 mentioned here.
Just to add that there are some C NRV sources online, but they are not so efficient as UPX, although can use UPX depacker (NRV2b), Still much better than ICE.
RAR, ZIP are too complex for using them from games.
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Re: Uncrunched Games

Postby lp » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:28 pm

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Last edited by lp on Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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