Anyone know anything about macs?

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Anyone know anything about macs?

Postby prog99 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:16 pm

Of the ibook or powerbook variety.

I'm looking for something to take on holiday I can d/l my digital photos to and maybe do a bit of processing on if the weather is bad.
A G4 is out of my price range as I'm aiming for something vaguely modern that'll run osx.
2nd user ones on ebay seem to fluctuate wildly in price (I saw one with only 64meg of ram go for 250quid today and then narrowly lost out on a much higher specced one that went for 156... crazy!)

Other option is the apple refurbished mac store that is only openon wednesdays, bargains to be had here?

Any (sensible) advice welcome!

Thanks.
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Postby bripilot » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:38 pm

Just wondering, why a Mac? You can get a PC for much less and you'll have much more compatibility with other machines than a Mac ever will... Nothing against Mac's, they're good machines, but software is damn near impossible to find, and God help you if you ever had one go bad...
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Postby prog99 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:41 pm

bripilot wrote:Just wondering, why a Mac? You can get a PC for much less and you'll have much more compatibility with other machines than a Mac ever will... Nothing against Mac's, they're good machines, but software is damn near impossible to find, and God help you if you ever had one go bad...


S/W isnt a problem as all the unix stuff I use at home has mac versions (being open surce) plus all I ever use here anyway is photoshop (or gimp), firefox & thunderbird.

I also fancied a change!
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Postby MadDonna » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:44 pm

With BitComet, and offcourse in the Apple store you can find everything you want. Firefox and Thunderbird are free offcourse and there are more programs for free.

If you want a powerbook or ibook, and you only want to use it for mail, photo's etc. you can do that with a powerbook or ibook with G3 processor. The amount of memory is much more of importance. I have a G3 266mhzpowerbook with 256mb memory and it works excellent.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/p ... 3_266.html

If you are not a collector, it is good to know that a mac keeps its value.

But, what also is important, if I show people my powerbook, and it doesn't matter how old it is, almost everybody loves the style and class of the machine. Specially when you have a white or titanium version. :D
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Postby CiH » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:31 pm

Just wondering, why a Mac? You can get a PC for much less and you'll have much more compatibility with other machines than a Mac ever will... Nothing against Mac's, they're good machines, but software is damn near impossible to find, and God help you if you ever had one go bad..


Software hard to find?

Not in my experience, but then again, I tend to browse on the internet, rather than PC World. I guess some people might miss out on the tactile feel of the packaging, but personally that is a minor detail :-)

As for the other topic., about 50% of the likely problems don't rear their head, as there isn't so much of a (hem!) Windows orientated malware problem. I guess if Apple do increase their market share and general profile, then MacOS becomes more of a target to assorted gits, ho hum..
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Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:32 pm

MadDonna wrote:If you want a powerbook or ibook, and you only want to use it for mail, photo's etc. you can do that with a powerbook or ibook with G3 processor. The amount of memory is much more of importance. I have a G3 266mhzpowerbook with 256mb memory and it works excellent.

Someone 10minutes drive from my house is selling one of these on ebay at the moment, hopefull I may get it.

Do these machines take std laptop simms and 2.5 ATA hard drives?
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Postby MadDonna » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:52 pm

SO-DIMM and standard ata 2.5 inch drives. For an example: IBM/Hitachi Travelstar 20GB 2.5 inch and bigger, how to do it, see bottom of the story

This story, below is not completly true, there are now 128 mb SO-DIMM's that are small enough to fit in the lower slot.

The Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers have two RAM expansion slots that accommodate standard SO (small outline) DIMMs using SDRAM devices. One slot is on the bottom of the system module and is normally occupied by the factory-installed SO-DIMM. The other slot is on the top of the system module and is available for a user-installed SO-DIMM. RAM expansion SO-DIMMs for the Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers must use SDRAM devices. If the user installs an SO-DIMM that uses EDO devices, the death chimes will sound when the user attempts to restart the computer.

An SO-DIMM for the Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers can contain either 16, 32, 64, or 128 MB of memory. Because of space limitations, a 128 MB SO-DIMM will fit only in the top slot. Total RAM capacity using the highest-density devices available is 192 MB and is limited by the space available for the SO-DIMMs. The bottom slot can accommodate a 1.5-inch SO-DIMM with up to 64 MB of SDRAM. The top slot can accommodate a 2.0-inch SO-DIMM with up to 128 MB of SDRAM.

Note: Future devices with higher density may allow expansion beyond the current 192-MB limit.

Mechanical Design of RAM SO-DIMMs

The RAM expansion modules used in the Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers are standard 144-pin 8-byte DRAM SO-DIMMs, as defined in the JEDEC specifications. The mechanical characteristics of the RAM expansion SO-DIMM are given in the JEDEC specification for the 144-pin 8-byte DRAM SO-DIMM. The specification number is JEDEC MO-190; it is available from the Electronics Industry Association's web site, at http://www.eia.org/jedec/download/freestd/pub95/#MO

The specification defines SO-DIMMs with nominal heights of 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, or 2.0 inches. Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers can accommodate two SO-DIMMS, one with a height up to 1.5 inches and the other with a height up to 2.0 inches.

Electrical Design of RAM SO-DIMMs

The electrical characteristics of the RAM SO-DIMM are given in section 4.5.6 of the JEDEC Standard 21-C, release 7. The specification is available from the Electronics Industry Association's web site, at http://www.eia.org/jedec/download/freestd/pub21/

The specification defines several attributes of the DIMM, including storage capacity and configuration, connector pin assignments, and electrical loading. The specification supports SO-DIMMs with either one or two banks of memory.

The JEDEC specification for the SO-DIMM defines a Serial Presence Detect (SPD) feature that contains the attributes of the module. SO-DIMMs for use in the Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers are required to have the SPD feature. Information about the required values to be stored in the presence detect EEPROM is in section 4.1.2.5 and Figure 4.5.6­C (144 Pin SDRAM SO­DIMM, PD INFORMATION) of the JEDEC standard 21-C specification, release 7.

Because the SO-DIMM connector has only two clock lines, and each clock line is limited to only 4 loads, an SO-DIMM with more than 8 SDRAM devices must have buffers on the clock lines. The buffers must be zero-delay type, such as phase-lock loop (PLL), which regenerates the clock signals. For example, the computer can support a 128-MB SO-DIMM using 16 devices and a PLL clock buffer.

SDRAM Devices

The SDRAM devices used in the RAM expansion modules must be self-refresh type devices for operation from a 3.3-V power supply. The speed of the SDRAM devices must be 100 MHz or greater. The devices are programmed to operate with a CAS latency of 3. At that CAS latency, the access time from the clock transition must be 7 ns or less. The burst length must be at least 4 and the minimum clock delay for back-to-back random column access cycles must be a latency of 1 clock cycle.

When the computer is in sleep mode, the maximum power-supply current available for each bank of SDRAM is 6 mA (see the section "RAM SO-DIMM Electrical Limits"). Developers should specify SDRAM devices with low power specifications so as to stay within that limit.

Configuration of RAM SO-DIMMs

The table below shows the sizes of the RAM expansion modules that can be used in the Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers and the different sizes of SDRAM devices that make up those modules. Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers accept either one or two SO-DIMMs. Any of the supported SO-DIMM sizes may be installed in either slot. The memory controller configures the combined memory of the SO-DIMMs into a contiguous array of memory addresses.

Note: The Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series computers do not support memory interleaving, so installing two SO-DIMMs of the same size does not result in any performance gain.

How can you add memory and change the harddisk, see the pictures below:

To open a G3 Powerbook is a very simple process,

1st remove the battery with the handle

Image
Image
Image

Then remove the cd or when you are lucky the dvd drive
Image

go with your fingers inside the machine and level the keyboard, so you can remove it.

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removed keyboard, the plate that protects the memory and cpu and the harddisk are now visible

Image

From this point it is very straight forward, the plate has 2 screws and the harddisk 1. Below my hand is the second screw that holds the plate.

Image
Image

the harddisk screw.

Image
Image

The harddisk is connected to the powerbook with it's own kind of connector, but if you remove that you will see a standard connector.
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Postby prog99 » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:54 pm

I eventually got one on ebay just now, need to pick it up later this week.

Got sniped with seconds to go on a 500mhz g3 (the downsides of no ebay access at work) so am making do with this 266 g3 (same as MadDonna's) which is coming with usb & wireless.

Next steps are(in some sort of order)-
bigger h/d
more ram (it has 192 atm)
osx or a flavour linux. Havent decided yet.

Expect more inane posts on this subject later... :P
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Postby [ProToS] » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:31 pm

I think I have the same, a powerbook wallstreet G3@250
but I have made some change, accel board G4@500, more ram, 40g hd.
the next thing is perhaps a wirless pc-card.
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Postby prog99 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:31 pm

Now running osx tiger. "only" 192meg of ram atm (256 sodimm in the post) 20gig hd in place.

Very impressed even if its not officially supported so you need the xpf util to get it installed. I'm surprised at how smoothly it runs in whats a very modest hardware spec. Ubuntu linux on another partition is actually a bit sluggish.
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Postby [ProToS] » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:57 pm

your right, XpostFacto is a very very nice software for unsuported osx hardware :)
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Postby MadDonna » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:24 pm

It works indeed flawless, I have (both beige) a G3 tower (400mhz) and a desktop 266 and on both OS X works excellent.

But installing OS X without XPostFacto is indeed almost impossible on those machines.
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Postby prog99 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:37 pm

Yes, xpf is a very nice util.

I should have said I was posting wirelessly from the powerbook, its all now integrated into the home network accessing the samba shares on the linux server.
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Postby MadDonna » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:42 pm

do you have airport extreme or an other way to be wireless, I have a compaq card and had to download drivers for it, a demo version.

What for a card do you have? And what for drivers?
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Postby [ProToS] » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:41 am

what compaq card do you use ?

with the compaq WL110 (a 802.11b) you can use drivers for ORiNOCO Gold or Silver card
perhpas this tip could work with your pc-card
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Postby MadDonna » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:45 am

I have indeed the WL110 card, and you can download drivers for it from the site http://www.macsense.com/product/broadba ... uni_b.html, but they only work for 30 minutes and then they say you have to pay for it. And although it is 20 dollar, I hope first to find drivers I don't have to pay for.
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Postby [ProToS] » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:52 pm

the Lucent/WaveLan/Orinoco gold and silver have be re-branded by Dell Compaq etc...

the compaq WL11 is one of them :) and the driver is free ;)
for 8.6/9.*
http://www.proxim.com/support/all/orino ... macos.html

and for osX
http://wirelessdriver.sourceforge.net
(read the mailing lists archive for this one for more info/patch/downloads)

I hope this help you :)
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Postby MadDonna » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:54 am

Thnx! I will download it and test it, I hope it works. :D
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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:55 am

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Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:12 pm

MadDonna wrote:do you have airport extreme or an other way to be wireless, I have a compaq card and had to download drivers for it, a demo version.

What for a card do you have? And what for drivers?

Its an orinoco silver. Using the ioxpert drivers (same ones as you?)
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Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:13 pm

[ProToS] wrote:the Lucent/WaveLan/Orinoco gold and silver have be re-branded by Dell Compaq etc...

the compaq WL11 is one of them :) and the driver is free ;)
for 8.6/9.*
http://www.proxim.com/support/all/orino ... macos.html

and for osX
http://wirelessdriver.sourceforge.net
(read the mailing lists archive for this one for more info/patch/downloads)

I hope this help you :)

The opensource driver is waay out of date though if your running a newer version of osx.
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Postby prog99 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:14 pm

MadDonna wrote:SO-DIMM and standard ata 2.5 inch drives. For an example: IBM/Hitachi Travelstar 20GB 2.5 inch and bigger, how to do it, see bottom of the story

This story, below is not completly true, there are now 128 mb SO-DIMM's that are small enough to fit in the lower slot.


I picked up a 256meg sodimm but its only seeing the 1st 128meg of it. Probably because its pc133.

I'll swap it for the 64 thats already in which'll give me 256 for the tiem being until I source something more compatible.
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Postby unseenmenace » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:38 pm

xerud wrote:I picked up a 256meg sodimm but its only seeing the 1st 128meg of it. Probably because its pc133.

This is usually down to the number of chips/chip capacity on the DIMM rather than the speed. Newer DIMM's use less larger capacity RAM chips to save on costs. Try and get older ones with lots of chips on both sides if possible.
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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:40 pm

xerud wrote:The opensource driver is waay out of date though if your running a newer version of osx.


sorry but read the mailing list, you will find link/patch to made it run under 10.4

and about the orinoco SILVER, you can update it to GOLD using the gold firmware ;)
http://www.proxim.com/support/all/orino ... sr-02.html
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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:52 pm

but if you don't whant to read the mailing list ;) the patch for 10.4 was here
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/WirelessDriver
you need to compile it yourself
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