EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

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EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:29 pm

I'd already reported on how EDGE had fake/mock up Tomb Raider screens, which they knew were just that, yet passed them off as Jaguar CD screens, so i should'nt of been surprised to find that was far from the only Jaguar related lie they told.

They'd quoted Psygnosis Ian Heterington, as saying they'd had a Jaguar for 12 months for evaluation, were'nt impressed by it at all, it was either an over-priced cart machine or under-specced CD machine.

So, after contacting numerous ex-staff memembers:

 It’s possible that Atari approached Ian when the toilet seat CD drive thing came about, pretty much every CD machine manufacturer wanted to talk to them, but the Jaguar was never seen as a machine with any future so internally so they never touched it.  In the ATG (advanced technology group) they built everything on the FM-Towns initially, then when other platforms came about they started to port work to them (Mega CD, SNES CD, CDTV, CD32) - the PC versions we actually outsourced to Creative Assembly originally.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:35 pm

Edge joins a long list of UK Magazines who printed false claims about games headed for various Atari platforms..The One, C+VG, The Games Machine, Zero, Ace, Raze....you name it, the list goes on and on.


Edge, in my experience have been one of the worst for miss-quoting and not just on Atari formats.A certain coder i contacted for Classic Console Magazine had been quoted talking about his ninja Sega saturn coding skills-in reality? he never touched the hardware.

So, my advice to anyone putting hopes on Lost Games surfacing based on UK mag claims alone, is simply don't....


Far too much rubbish was passed off as fact and is still used today as 'proof'.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby CiH » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:13 pm

It's my 1000th post. Thought I'd save it for something special, then this has come up.

I am shocked, SHOCKED to hear that UK games magazines from the 1990's have been making false claims!

So's this chap.. :mrgreen:

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby MrMaddog » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:36 am

Well that's funny since they were bought out by Sony in 1993 to make games for the Playstation...

No surprise about UK gaming mags in the 90's making stuff up, I still have issues of ST Format who were the ultimate Atari fanbois.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby spiny » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:06 am

CiH wrote:It's my 1000th post. Thought I'd save it for something special, then this has come up.

I am shocked, SHOCKED to hear that UK games magazines from the 1990's have been making false claims!

So's this chap.. :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME



:D

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby exxos » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:58 am

:lol: I had to stop buying PC mags somewhere around lateish 90s because of pure rubbish hardware reviews. I remember a whole page review of CPU coolers once, the best one they had was a tiny thing which a crappy little fan and they had it as the best cooler ever. I was just like WTF, the worst one they had listed was the one I purchased, huge heatsink, huge fan, worked fantastic, best cooler I ever had. That mag claimed it only cooled the CPU like 1deg or something. Pretty sure whoever did the reviews didn't put paste on the heatsink which was supplied in a little plastic bag normally back then. Think he only gave good reviews for coolers where it had pre-applied paste. Next issue they was reviewing graphic cards.. issues after that I just stopped buying the PC mags as was seriously annoying me :lol:
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:46 pm

:-)

I've lost count of the number of hours wasted chasing down leads from UK Press over the years claiming Person X was developing Game Y on System F...only to find it was an utter fabrication by the magazine at the time.


Sometimes it was 'innocent' enough, they assumed as he/she had converted a game, they'd be handling it's sequel and indeed said sequel or conversion had been greenlit for said platform.


But when your falsely quoting someone, who appears to give a key developer policy/stance/viewpoint on a platform, i do find myself questioning the writers and indeed magazines agenda at that time.


Cases in point being: Edge and the Saturn coder..Quote gave impression that coder really knew Saturn hardware inside out and as a result, the saturn version when it appeared would really make most of the hardware..in reality no Saturn version ever planned, coder PS1/PC only.



Ace and Zero claiming Bob Armour would be doing 7800 Gauntlet, Bob really talented coder on Atari, 7800 ideal hardware for Gauntlet.Ditto The Games Machine claiming John Croudy would be handling Druid II on A8..

Ultimate Future Games claiming Jaguar Quake 30% complete

C+VG detailing Gremlins plans for the 7800

It simply generated false hope at the time and years since gave rise to even falser hope that there were these 'Lost Games' hopefully sat somewhere just itching to be discovered and people latched onto them, listed them in various articles, using screens from other formats etc and the myth continued.


Edge's Psygnosis/Jaguar claim was part of a much wider, industry look at Jaguar hardware and there were more than enough honest doubts raised by publishers/developers over Atari's ability to market and support the Jaguar, as it was..without the need to create a fabricated claim.



The question of US Gold and Tiertex's plans for various conversions to Atari Lynx has never really gone away, ever since Raze claimed Strider 2 was 50% complete and other publications claimed E-Motion, Rotox, Leaderboard etc were headed Lynx way.

All news to the very developers behind the ST/Amiga versions who'd of been more than aware who had the rights to produce console versions.

If anything 'good' has come from the various investigations, it's been i've been able to get a look at the much bigger picture as it were, in terms of the (UK) realationship between Atari-The press-And the development/publisher community.


You soon find out who Atari deemed 'important' in terms of badly wanting onboard to support their hardware (Audiogenic not being deemed important enough for Jaguar, Atari Uk wanting Argonaugt, but not being able to convince them Jaguar was going to suceed, not being able to afford rights to convert games themselves etc)...which publishers knew from the start not to take a risk on new Atari hardware (Mev Dinc passing over chance to develop on Panther) and which were going to risk it with conversions (Gremlin Graphics with Switchblade 2 on Lynx for example), but if sales were'nt there...that was it, no future games planned.


But some of the stuff claimed as fact, repeated again now and new claims being as false as those years earlier....

Crikey.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:08 pm

Actually whilst on soapbox :-)

And in interest of balance, sometimes the magazines were simply going on 'good faith'...


ZZap64 assured that C64 Tape version of Bobby Bearing would have sound/music featured from disk version..it had nothing...

Atari User A8 Living Daylights...final version had level etc cut it seems from review version and they were honest enough to explain this in a later issues letters page.



System 3 telling RG Freelancer ST Myth had been released...

Various ZX Spectrum magazines printing the screens they were given of Toki+Nemisis, both mocked up puerly for the press it seems


But then you've the debatable ones..did they/did they not know?


Core we know had told Edge the Tomb Raider screens were fakes, Edge then decided to pass them off as actual Jag CD screens...


But Mean Machines passing off the CGI renders of Alien Trilogy as in-game (claiming they'd make Jag AVP look like The wizzard Of Oz!)...hmmn....


Gamesmaster's Jag CD Freelancer 2010 Preview, if info from Imagitec's Andrew seed is correct, these were done on a PC using Argonaut's BRender software, but they looked so sweet they (along with Tempest 2000+AVP) convinced me to buy a Jaguar on Day 1....then there's ATD's lush looking early Blue Lightning Jag CD screens that Fred Gill could'nt recal......


So it's often hard not to look back and feel cheated at times.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:15 pm

@MrMaddog:Was it STFormat who'd (falsely) claimed things like:

Thallion developing No Second Prize 2, Lionheart etc for Jaguar?

Atari UK were planning to re-release the 520STFM at super low budget price to take on the Super Nintendo and Megadrive as a budget level 16 Bit Gaming system? (Something Atari Uk themselves could'nt even believe they'd read).


I only dabbled with the mag, prefered The One, Zero, Raze etc myself so possibly missed some classic porkies.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby junosix » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:37 pm

I lost faith in magazines at least 15 years ago. And ST Format became bloody awful in the later years, consistently incorrect information regarding technical information on the ST, loved it in its early days though.

Atari did re-release the STFM in 1993 for £150 though, or did you see a claim that it would be even cheaper than that?

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:31 pm

Purely going off my memory here which gets worse each passing year :-)

But i seem to recal it was the manner in which ST Format had reported on the STFM re-release, rather than the actual price itself.

They seemed to imply it's re-release was more a case of trying to go head-to-head with the 16 Bit consoles, offering a cheaper means of getting into 16 Bit gaming, rather than what i assume was Atari's intention of simply shifting existing stocks of the STFM hardware.


I know Darryl Still (Atari UK PR at time) wrote in to correct EDGE over it's claim a Jaguar CD Unit had 'blown up' at a press event....

Rebellion have made claims over Edge's AVP reviewer..time played, fact he was a massive Doom fan and also over Edge's claims over their plans for Jag CD development.


Yet Edge still clings to that holier than thou attitude :-)

My decline with mainstream press simply started with subscriptions stopping, nothing being used to replace them, then actual magazines themselves given away/offered up for free, then huge amounts simply sent to recycling as no-one wanted them.


If your reading an article, hoping that via the publishers contacts and influence, you'll find fresh info/insights on a platform or game, but come away rolling your eyes at the school boy errors and obvious lack of research simply being youtube and wikip......

Is it any wonder the days of physical magazines seem numbered?.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby Dal » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:37 pm

There was some kind of public ST Format vs ST Review rift I seem to remember towards the end of ST Review's life - I think one of the STF writers had made some kind of remark that upset ST Review. I Must dig through and refresh myself on the details as it all happened right before Future Publishing announced it would be buying out ST Review.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby junosix » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:07 pm

The odd thing about the 1993 re-release STFMs is that they appear to be in modified STE cases, if you look at the area where the enhanced joystick ports would be on the side you can see the seam where they filled that area of the mould back in again, etc. So maybe they did do a fresh run rather than try and move on old stock. Unless they did have an abundance of surplus motherboards but no ready cases for them to go in or something. That does sound more Atari to be honest!
Last edited by junosix on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby junosix » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:10 pm

Yeah, I think I remember the ST Review vs. ST Format thing. I disliked the whole Star Trek obsession stuff and the way one of the reviewers used to bang on about their ex-girlfriend in the later issues too, just came across as really self indulgent.

(Dal, did you get those ST Actions okay by the way!)

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby Cyprian » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:15 pm

junosix wrote:Atari did re-release the STFM in 1993 for £150 though, or did you see a claim that it would be even cheaper than that?

Why Atari did that strange move? They should completely drop STfm production after STE release.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby junosix » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:20 pm

I agree wholeheartedly. The FM should have died with the 80s!

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby CiH » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:22 pm

Why Atari did that strange move? They should completely drop STfm production after STE release.


A random memory fart suggests that these were STFM's that were returned as defective and recycled.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:43 pm

Ahh.It was STF issue 46, with Michael Roberts covering the £90 price drop of the STFM (down to £159) in both the news section and a seperate feature later in the magazine (Smashing through the barriers).

Lot of talk/suggestion about how this new price point would put pressure on SNES+MD as for a few quid more the user had a proper 16 Bit computer, so you could do a lot more than just game on it.

Also it was claimed Atari hoped the new price would see a further 150,000 ST's sold in 1993.


Article also claimed these were'nt old stocks, as Atari had nonebut the result of new manufactuering techniques which enabled the 'new' STFM's to be made far cheaper.Also that Atari had at least looked at the possibilty of dropping STFM altogether.


But then STF also claimed Thalion were working on the final 2 games in the Amberstar series and they'd both appear on the ST....


Yet when i interviewed Jurie horneman, he did'nt think work had ever started on Ambermoon, nor had Thalion even considered an ST version and as for the 3rd instalment?, no storyboards or concepts put down, just a few ideas.....

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby calimero » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:39 pm

lostdragon wrote:Yet when i interviewed Jurie horneman, he did'nt think work had ever started on Ambermoon, nor had Thalion even considered an ST version and as for the 3rd instalment?, no storyboards or concepts put down, just a few ideas.....

I am pretty sure that 3D engine for Ambermoon was developed first on ST.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby wongck » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:12 am

may be stfm has more software that are compatible than ste new extra modes.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby wongck » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:20 am

lostdragon wrote::-)

I've lost count of the number of hours wasted chasing down leads from UK Press over the years claiming Person X was developing Game Y on System F...only to find it was an utter fabrication by the magazine at the time.


Really.... just like the tabloids, these magazines probably looking for any scoop to report. They probably heard something and just "dress" it up a tad. End of the day if they can get some issues moving... that's the real goal.
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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:22 pm

Yep, these days it's more likely a website will create an attention grabbing headline to a news story, just to draw in the site traffic and minor claims get overblown, quotes taken out of context, you name it...the practice still goes on because it simply works...

It simply is a massive ball ache when you purposely seek out someone who you think would be the ideal person to 'speak to', in order to give a balanced viewpoint on often maligned or overlooked hardware, as they'd spent lot of time learning a system, could hopefully explain why a game never made it to retail, just how far along it actually got etc...


Only to be told that what you'd read in Magazine X at the time was utter rubbish, they'd never touched the hardware.


Once you get past the inital...'where on earth did you hear i had worked on?' stage of the conversation, your lucky enough to find topics for disscussion after all, but it just sets you back to square 1, looking for the very people who could shed light on format/games you were after to start with.


It's when the mags in question make out they are a grade above the mainstream or you'll only find interviews with...as only they have the contacts, my eyes start to roll.


I don't use Skype/Facebook or Twitter, which would open up far more paths than i currently have avaiable, but i've been able to answer the questions of what happened to...that mainstream press like Edge/Retro Gamer and Gamestm, never seemed to be able to do.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:33 pm

Re:Ambermoon Engine being developed on ST 1st...pass.The views expressed in the interviews are of course those of the individual and as we've found over the years, the more years that pass, the more confusion that creeps in.


You've seen Jez San go from a definite answer..NO Jaguar games to not sure, memory is hazy....

It was only thanks to putting dame question to 2 Ex-Atari UK people (Darryl Still+Mike Fulton) and various Ex-Argonaut coders, 2 who'd worked on Creature shock, i could build the bigger picture of what became of the game, Atari wanting, Argonaut having Jaguar dev.kits, tech/test coding carried out etc.




Even people who owned versions of the game would post confused info, saw posts claiming CD-i version had everything from PC CD version, inc 3D stages, well as the coder confirmed to me, it did'nt, they were replaced by FMV sequences as CD-i hardware simply could'nt handle the 3D sections.


You often simply need multiple sources, even when looking into the most mundane games.





No one can yet confirm to poor old Frank Gasking what on earth happened to C64 Murder, despite numerous magazines reviewing it, numerous sources approached, they cannot even confirm if it was disk only...search still continues for more valid info.


The most common reply i get, when i approach people about chatting about 8/16 Bit era games is that they are very happy to chat, but not sure what use they'll be as it was so long ago.Canned projects are most akward as sometimes people got burnt, very badly or because project was abanonded, they simply moved on to something they would be paid for and thus canned project was simply forgotten about.


The thing with Thallion's games (speaking purely from a personal viewpoint) is whilst i could'nt fault them technically, indeed they seemed to push the ST hardware further than i ever thought possible, they lacked that certain something....


Airbus and No Second Prize were genres i was'nt into to start with an when they took 'inspiration' from coin-ops they never really seemed to get what made the originals tick....


Ghost Battle for example was a rather dissapointing Ghosts 'N' Goblins clone, where as Core Design had taken inspiration from Mercs and produced Warzone, Bitmap Bros Black Tiger and produced Gods...etc.


Purely down to personal tastes mind.

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby lostdragon » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:55 pm

A-Ha..


It appears ST User Magazine, issue 93/November'93 printed the claim that Coder Michael Bittner had a small, but working 3D engine for Ambermoon, up and running on the ST before Amberstar was even finished..this is reflected in the HOL posting, saying ST version was lead platform, but as coders were Michael and Jurie, i'd need to speak to Michael, to get his viewpoint, before i could confirm ST Users claim.


Jurie seemed quite sure an ST version had'nt even been considered, so maybe...it really did boil down to Michael coming up with the tech as it were (on the ST), but by time work properly started on developing Ambermoon, development was strictly not on the cards for the ST version, as there simply was'nt the market for it?.


After all it would'nt be the 1st game who's origins began life on the humble ST:


Rayman started life as a simple animation demo running on ST, game started development on SNES CD, then moved to Jaguar etc....



Xcom began as ST Laser Squad II....

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Re: EDGE Magazine falsely claim Psygnosis had a Jaguar for 12 Months...

Postby calimero » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:36 pm

10x for effort! :)

btw:
lostdragon wrote:Rayman started life as a simple animation demo running on ST, game started development on SNES CD, then moved to Jaguar etc....

Xcom began as ST Laser Squad II....

REALLY? Do you have some links or interview? :) :) :) :) :angel:
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