Consoles vs Computers

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Avanze » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:00 pm

Saddest thing I ever did was sell my original C64 for a Sega Master System. I had so many games, and clearly remember stacking them up and proudly counting them out. Perhaps it was tape loading that finally got to me in the end. I loved the old 800XL and C64, beautiful machines in my opinion. I never had a NES, Amstrad or Spectrum though. After that, the next step was of course, the Sega Mega Drive. An awesome console, the best, just superb. We had a Japanese import version, and it was so grand. We also had an Atari 520 STfm and A500+ Miggy in the same room back then. To be honest the Amiga was used more for games but the Atari arrived first and was the honoured guest in the home. What great times they were and such will never be repeated. So now it is just the basic Xbox 360 and back to the emulators.

I did remember seeing a NES once, in a department store showcasing Mike Tyson's Boxing. It looked good, but the machine just did not appeal and I only knew one person who had a NES. It looked terrible compared to the bright colour palette of the Sega master System. SNES was a wonderful console and a disk copier came in handy too! But comparing the games of the computer and console. Atari/C64 games were more challenging, I guess they had to be. I think the graphics of the 16-Bit were so enticing and we wanted the new technology...

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:56 pm

Agree, Megadrive was an awesome console.

Like you i never owned a NES but thought of to buy one several times because of the great games that wasn't available for either Atari 130 XE or ST. When i used NES emulators i soon discovered that NES was much better then i thought.

Download

Batman
Batman Return of the Joker
Shatterhand
Ninja Gaiden III
Blue Shadow
Powerblade II
Castlevania III

To see what i mean. These games are pure eye candy.
http://www.longplays.org/modules/rmdp/categos.php?id=15

NES was a pleasant surprise for me.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:36 am

Download and compare "CJ Elephant Antics" on ST and NES and you will soon find out that the NES version is superior in both graphics, gameplay and sound, yet it's nothing compared to the better platformers on NES, such Powerblade II or Shatterhand. Same thing can be said about other titles as well that you find on both ST and NES in this list of longplays. In this case 16 bit don't really mean a thing because NES has the hardware to run this type of games better then ST. What you notice when watching these longplays is that hardware scroll really matters. That super smooth scrolling makes platform games so much more enjoyable to play.

On the other hand, if you release Carrier Command, Starglider II, Damocles or any similar game in that genre, ST will win big time.

Try this one
http://www.longplays.org/modules/rmdp/down.php?id=1708

It's a 110 MB .mkv (matroska) high quality movie. NES really was that good.

NES on Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_NES
The Main Processor (based on 6502)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_2A03
The graphics processor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Processing_Unit

NES was a importand console

Once the best-selling gaming console of its time, the NES helped revitalize the US video game industry following the video game crash of 1983, and set the standard for subsequent consoles of its generation. With the NES, Nintendo introduced a now-standard business model of licensing third-party developers, authorizing them to produce and distribute software for Nintendo's platform.


In 2009, the Nintendo Entertainment System was named the single greatest video game console in history by IGN, out of a field of 25. 2010 marked the system's 25th anniversary, which was officially celebrated by Nintendo of America's magazine Nintendo Power in issue #260 (November 2010) with a special 26-page tribute section. Other video game publications also featured articles looking back at 25 years of the NES, and its impact in the video game console market.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby DarkLord » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:13 am

What I always enjoyed was watching the look on an Ultima series RPG players face after
they tried it on a console...priceless! :)
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

DarkLord wrote:What I always enjoyed was watching the look on an Ultima series RPG players face after
they tried it on a console...priceless! :)


What was new on the consoles was games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, YS and more typical japanese RPG's that took the market by storm and became best selling. Chrono Trigger, Lufia, Soul Blazer, Zelda and many more classic japanese rpg's.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby DarkLord » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:39 pm

Is it just me or does console RPG's never feel like classic RPGs on computers...

Take Zelda for example - IMHO, on its best day ever, it can't hold a candle to any
Ultima... I don't care how much eye-candy you pump into it...

<shrugs> Maybe its just me...dunno... :)
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:46 pm

Japanese rpg's is known for it's high class, not only graphical. Excellent story, great game mechanics, great sound and graphics to match. Even today Square's and Enix rpg games for NES and SNES has a legendary status and games as Secret of Mana, the Final Fantasy series, Chrono Trigger for exemple is regarded among the best rpg games ever made.

But it's not only rpg. When you play platformers on NES you soon notice that the japanese game designers used a lot more imagination then their european and american counterparts. Perhaps it's in the japanese culture.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:12 pm

DarkLord wrote:Is it just me or does console RPG's never feel like classic RPGs on computers...


RPG on consoles normally have simplified controls.
Like Monster Hunter plays more like a hack n slash but it is RPG ( build up character, buys amours, weapons etc )
Same button ( X for example) does different thing based on the context... open a door when you are in front of a door, thrust your weapon when your weapon is out ( I mean a sword for example :lol: ).
Complicated commands like those found in Ultima ( different keys on keyboard does different thing ) will not work well if they are not grouped into context based.

I hope I make sense... :roll:
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:16 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote:Japanese rpg's is known for it's high class, not only graphical. Excellent story, great game mechanics, great sound and graphics to match. Even today Square's and Enix rpg games for NES and SNES has a legendary status and games as Secret of Mana, the Final Fantasy series, Chrono Trigger for exemple is regarded among the best rpg games ever made.


I am amazed at how some of my friends knows how to play a Japanese RPG when they do not know Japanese language. The Japanese sentence comes on screen, may be asking to select something, and they can do it correctly... :roll: I guess by trial and error.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:44 pm

Some console rpg is more action based while some others is command based, like Ultima. Segas Phantasy Star series is typical command based rpg's (and real good ones too). You fight using commands. Phantasy Star IV was totally awesome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_S ... Millennium

Speaking of NES, it's not hard to find real good games on NES.

Excitebike, Zelda, Super Mario, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Kid Icarus, Kirby's Adventure, Duck Tales, Meteroid, Star Wars, Batman, Guerilla Wars, Castlevania, Faxanadu, Blue shadow, Shatterhand, Double Dragon, Darkwing Duck, Track & Field, Little Samson, Mike Tyson's Punch Out, Ninja Gaiden, Mighty Final Fight, Mega Man, Panic Restaurant, Power Blade II, Contra, Micro Machines, Adventure Island, Bomberman, Felix The Cat, Chip'n Dale, Festers Quest, Blades of Steel, Aladdin, Bionic Commando, Gradius, Journey to Silius, Willow, Battle Toads, Battle of Olympus, Metal Gear, etc etc

For exemple.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:15 pm

I think that many platformers for both ST and Amiga was downright boring to play. They looked nice and sounded descent too but there was hardly any playability and boring level design. Psygnosis released many boring games for exemple that just contained great graphics and not much more. Many platformers in the 80's and beginning of the 90's was pretty boring on the computers.

When you play a platformer on NES you notice right away that much more work have been spent on making the game fun to play, level design and game control. And when SNES and Megadrive was released it was the same thing, much more work was spent on making the game fun to play, level design and game control.

So it isn't only about graphics and sound.

Castlevania IV for exemple contained a new control method, rotating rooms and much more that maked the game fun to play. (besides excellent graphics, awesome music and great atmosphere).

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Zogging Hell » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:43 pm

I'd have to admit most platformers on the ST are a tad bland and repetitive (Not my cup of tea full stop platformers, although I did like Sonic on the Megadrive and Super Mario World), Rainbow Islands is one of the best versions on the ST but I know the NES version is rated as the best of the lot. Parasol Stars was also good, and Bubble Bobble (bit of trend there). I suppose Magic Boy, Turrican/2, Enchanted Lands and Gods are not to bad either. Mind you I'm hoping that Ninja Gaiden 3 you mention isn't the same one as on the Lynx, that is a terribly dull game, with nothing to recommend it but nice cut scenes.

I don't think the ST/ Amiga are all about graphics and sound at all, I concede the Japanese have always had the knack for a good platformer, but on any platform there are always a equal mix of stinkers and classics, and at least the computers had more variety. Some of the worst games I own are on the Megadrive (also some greats of course, I always was partial to the original Streets of Rage, particularly that elevator level at the end, where you were literally up to your neck in baddies, great music as well).
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:15 pm

Zogging Hell wrote:I'd have to admit most platformers on the ST are a tad bland and repetitive (Not my cup of tea full stop platformers, although I did like Sonic on the Megadrive and Super Mario World), Rainbow Islands is one of the best versions on the ST but I know the NES version is rated as the best of the lot. Parasol Stars was also good, and Bubble Bobble (bit of trend there). I suppose Magic Boy, Turrican/2, Enchanted Lands and Gods are not to bad either. Mind you I'm hoping that Ninja Gaiden 3 you mention isn't the same one as on the Lynx, that is a terribly dull game, with nothing to recommend it but nice cut scenes.

I don't think the ST/ Amiga are all about graphics and sound at all, I concede the Japanese have always had the knack for a good platformer, but on any platform there are always a equal mix of stinkers and classics, and at least the computers had more variety. Some of the worst games I own are on the Megadrive (also some greats of course, I always was partial to the original Streets of Rage, particularly that elevator level at the end, where you were literally up to your neck in baddies, great music as well).


I think it's up to quality control as well. Anybody could write whatever crap game on ST and Amiga just to make an extra buck. On Nintendo it was a lot harder to release something that wasn't good because the game must be confirmed by Nintendo first (Nintendo seal of quality). Nintendo got a bad reputation if the games that was released wasn't great. Then most big professional arcade companies as Konami, Capcom, Taito, Namco, Irem, Tecmo etc coded the games directly for NES. Something that never happend on either ST or Amiga.

And when you look at many NES platform/action it's something far from what we played on our 16 bit computers.

Ninja Gaiden was created by the arcade company Tecmo and released in three parts where part 3 is the hardest of them, Ninja Gaiden trilogy was released on SNES. We got part one for ST "Shadow Warriors" that unfortanly was far from the great NES version.

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Consoles vs Computers

Postby CoolCoyote » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:44 pm

nativ wrote:what would have happened if the Neo Geo and megadrive had keyboards?


Nothing
Neogeo is sprite based
Its really cool and relatively easy to
Code on it
All is sprite 16x16,even background,CAN be zoomed verticaly and/or horizontaly, works by system of layer ( the first one is the fix layer, which contains score and others things)

So, if you CAN see an neogeo with keyboard, its just an devkit. For all other computer application, it would be an real poo :)

I own an neogeo mvs cabinet and its really great. And even if most of game are fighting's one, i dont really play at it ( i own all art of fighting,fatal fury, last blade etc..) i prefer shoot n run,shoot em up or games like league bowling,puzzle bobble or top hunter
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby nativ » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 pm

I was quite impressed with King of Monsters when I saw that on GamesMaster.

From what you say the Falcon should be what I am looking for if I am after a neogeo with a Keyboard! :D

I am more of a shooter fan too!
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:49 pm

I'm still very impressed of NES and has downloaded lots of longplays to watch. Rare (ultimate play the game) made some real impressive games for NES like Battletoads, Snake Rattle and Roll, Battletoads & Double Dragon, RC Pro AM. Highly enjoyable all of them.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:05 pm

I remember when Battletoads was released and recived awesome scores in the magazines. It's not hard to understand why when i watch it. Lots of humour, great animation, great level design and plenty of almost unbelievable good graphical effects. They must have pushed the hardware in NES to it's limits.

If you download a longplay, make it Battletoads.
http://www.longplays.org/modules/rmdp/down.php?id=743

The rest (about 300 longplays for NES)
http://www.longplays.org/modules/rmdp/categos.php?id=15

Remember, that crappy Windows Media Player doesn't run MKV movies (matroska format)

Download KMPlay, the best mediaplayer by far.
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/K ... 26726.html

K-Lite is a very good mediaplayer too
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/k_l ... c_pack.htm

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Zogging Hell » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:32 pm

Lol Retrogamer_ST I think you need to rename yourself with a NES suffix, I think you are in love with that console! 8O :wink:

Sure anyone can write a game on the ST, but I think the world would be a much poorer place without Llamatron, Walls of Illusion, Robotz and any number of David Munsie games etc.
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby nativ » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:59 pm

Does Retro Gamer know about GODleNES?
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Zogging Hell » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:50 am

nativ wrote:Does Retro Gamer know about GODleNES?


Aha that's why computers are better than consoles... they can emulate them as well! :D
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:17 am

I already have the whole collection of NES roms. ;)

A computer is good for more things then just gaming. And novadays with powerful graphic cards you can play stunning games on PC as well. But in the 80's and early 90's the best choice for the gamer was a console. Not to be biased but you can't fail to notive that most games on the consoles in that time was so much more playable and professional made then on the computers. Especially the more arcade like action games and platformers. Much more work was done to make them playable.

On the computers you could often get away with a half done job, on the consoles you had much higher standard to live up to, else your game wasn't released when Nintendo or Sega said no in the quality control. There's almost countless of real bad unispired platformers and shooter on the computers. Some of them with quite nice graphics but no playability. Besides that it was more expensive to develop for the consoles and you couldn't afford to release something that failed big time.

There were some real good platformers for ST and Amiga too but just a few. And everytime one of them was released both the people and the reviewers went crazy. ;)

After both watching and playing lots of games on NES i can honest say that NES games was superior to most games that we bought on our computers, not counting games that had no counterpart on NES, like Damocles for exemple.

Besides some hardware NES had things that we didn't

Capcom, Konami, Irem, Taito, Namco, Tecmo, Hudson, Nintendo, Data East, Rare, Technos, Sammy, Tradewest, Natsume, and many more great game developers.

The orginals, not some half bad european conversions like on the computers. Besides that some games was completly remade especially for NES.

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby CoolCoyote » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:49 am

Retrogamer_ST wrote:I already have the whole collection of NES roms. ;)
Besides that some games was completly remade especially for NES.


like Dragon's Lair :)

the world famous harder and "make you totally crazy" game !

european version is better than american's one,much faster,with bosses but totally insane!
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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:55 am

Both Dragons Lair and Space Ace was terrible on the ST thanks to 6-8 diskettes to switch. :D

On NES it was at least playable. ;)

Dragons Lair - 7 Diskettes
Dragons Lair II - 7 Diskettes
Dragons Lair III - 8 Diskettes

Pheeew

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby DarkLord » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:16 am

After reading this thread for some time, I would wish only one thing Retrogamer ST...

That you would qualify your statements with something like...In my opinion...

For example, you state in a post above that:

"But in the 80's and early 90's the best choice for the gamer was a console"

I beg to differ...that's a blanket statement and for some reason, I just don't
seem to fit under that blanket. :)

Now, I'm a gamer...Seriously. I've owned literally hundreds of games, spread across
the Atari 8bit, ST, Falcon, Jaguar, Lynx, a few Amiga games when I owned an A1000
and an A1200, quite a few Playstation 1, 2, and 3 games, etc, etc,...

So I'm a gamer...and *for me*, the best choice in the 80's was not a console, Especially
not the NES or Sega Genesis. The vast majority of my gaming friends at the time were
playing on computers, especially RPG's. My friends that did own consoles said they
bought them mostly for their kids. Not for themselves primarily (although I'm sure
they did play them of course. Heck, I still play console games with my kids).

So please just think that over, okey-dokey? :)

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Re: Consoles vs Computers

Postby Klapauzius » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:38 am

Retrogamer_ST wrote:Dragons Lair - 7 Diskettes
Dragons Lair II - 7 Diskettes
Dragons Lair III - 8 Diskettes


Actually it's:
Dragon's Lair - 4 Diskettes
Dragon's Lair II - 6 Diskettes
Dragon's Lair III - 7 Diskettes
Dragon's Lair IV - 6 Diskettes

Still way too many, of course... :)
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