Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

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Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby Heavy Stylus » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:53 pm

I'm aware that this subject has been touched upon before, but I'm yet to see a definitive list of screens that support the ST's horizontal and vertical scan rates.

If you use a TFT/LCD screen with an Atari via scart (for ST Medium and Low Resolutions) post up the name of your TV/Monitor here.

I'm using an LG M1921A 19" LCD Monitor, but as my STE is yet to arrive I'm not sure if it'll work without a scan doubler (in the meantime I'll have to use the RF port). Fingers crossed it'll be OK - my SNES looked great via scart, so I'm hoping the STE will work as well - although it doesn't like my C64 at all... :(

I'll post my findings up here when I've tested it out.

(http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 90-5762837)

What about the rest of you? Any flatscreen Atarians out there?
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Postby techie_alison » Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:41 pm

Samsung LE19R71BX Telvision (with additional VGA input).

Image

It's not as good as a CRT.

The Panasonic 26" HD LCD (SCART/Component/DVI) downstairs though is absolutely pixel perfect. But then again you'd expect that considering how expensive the Panasonic LCDs are. We hire ours for £26/month, so in the 2-years that we've had it that's about £500. Far short of the £900 price tag it had in 2006.

For monochrome mode I also have an NEC Multisync 1810 LCD, which is pixel perfect too.

Beware with the term multisync on modern monitors. In recent years it has become marketing blurb rather than the meaning that it had in the 1980's. The 1980's meaning was that it could sync to both 31Khz and 15Khz odd. Todays ones don't do that. It is very rare to find a monitor today that is a true multisync in traditionalist terms.

Plus also, manufacturers today aren't exactly forthcoming about what their panels can do. The technical specifications are vague and happy slap user friendly for the Windows user that bought their first computer last week.

How often do you see Windows Compatiable? :-)))) It's a bit like saying in a car manual; Woman Compatiable. It's an irrelevant term. Windows is a piece of software. A monitor is an output device like a speaker outputting sound. It's like saying BBC1 Compatiable on a television.

We really need to pool together and publish what we're all using on our STs. We're not going to get this information anywhere else or by viewing user manuals.

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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby alexh » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:49 pm

Heavy Stylus wrote:I'm using an LG M1921A 19" LCD Monitor, but as my STE is yet to arrive I'm not sure if it'll work without a scan doubler

It wont work with a scandoubler either!

Not unless the scandoubler can promote 50Hz screens to 60Hz (which will result in horrible jerky scrolling). Or you switch to 60Hz with a software switch (available on some Menus of CD's)

Look at the specs : http://www.lge.com/products/model/detai ... _1_6.jhtml

Horizontal Frequency 30 ~ 83 kHz
This indicates you need a scandoubler as it cannot sync to 15KHz.

Vertical Frequency 56 ~ 75 Hz
This indicates you need a scandoubler which can display 50Hz screens at 60Hz.

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Postby techie_alison » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm

Image

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TV-tuner-box-Vide ... dZViewItem

One of these WILL do the job. They're not perfect though as they only accept RF or Composite inputs. I use one here to hook up things like Sinclair Spectrums to a VGA monitor.

Works with the ST too, but clearly not a touch on RGB (SCART or otherwise).

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Postby techie_alison » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:20 pm

Hey Stylus,

I've just downloaded the actual manual for your monitor.. It has a SCART and Composite inputs on the back of it.

You should be fine :) We won't know until you try it, as alot of the technical spec's out there aren't even written by the engineers

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Postby Heavy Stylus » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:39 pm

techie_alison wrote:Hey Stylus,

I've just downloaded the actual manual for your monitor.. It has a SCART and Composite inputs on the back of it.

You should be fine :) We won't know until you try it, as alot of the technical spec's out there aren't even written by the engineers

Aly


Yeah - I'll wait and see and report back. The SNES works fine via a Gamecube scart lead (in fact, it looks better than on my old tube telly), and I reckon the Atari output is similar (Composite/RGB, 15KHz).

The C64 doesn't work properly with the S-Video lead I got from Protovision, but that's a different output altogether (Composite only with seperate Y/C outputs). However, *even* that works (well, better than RF) with my cheapo scan doubler/VGA box BTW alexh (after a bit of manual tuning). However, having said that I reckon I could do with getting a better one at a later date.

For reference:

http://pinouts.ru/Video/AtariStMonitor_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Game/SnesVideo_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Multimedia/AudioVideoC64_pinout.shtml
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Postby alexh » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:27 am

I wonder if it will accept RGB on the SCART or just composite.

Strange, this monitor is more of an LCDTV than a monitor.

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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby joska » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Heavy Stylus wrote:If you use a TFT/LCD screen with an Atari via scart (for ST Medium and Low Resolutions) post up the name of your TV/Monitor here.


I have a Samsung 17" LCD TV (Syncmaster 741MP) that I use with my Falcon in both VGA and RGB modes. In VGA mode I use a normal VGA cable, and in RGB mode I use a Falcon<->SCART cable I bought from Nick at 16/32. I could have fabricated a switched cable, but as I don't use this Falcon much (in fact it's stored away right now) I haven't bothered yet. I have not tested any of my ST's with this TV.
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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby Heavy Stylus » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:02 pm

Heavy Stylus wrote:I'm using an LG M1921A 19" LCD Monitor...


And I happily announce that it works with Alison's scart lead! :)

Photo's to follow. Picture quality isn't as good as STEEM via my monitor, but it's not bad!
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Postby techie_alison » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:13 pm

YAyyyyyy :-)

It won't be as good as Steem though on a PC monitor. :-( But it should be pretty good.

On my Samsung I get what could almost be described as digital compression artifacts. You know, when you watch Sky sometimes and you see blatent MPEG compression on shadows and things.

Stock wise I suspect that these are native panels expecting an analogue PC/VGA style signal, with a daughter board slapped on top to handle the RF/SCART/CVBS inputs. Almost like a scan doubler/VGA box.. There are similarities in the output of non-PC signals.

The 26" Panasonic here is the ONLY lcd that I've seen which is flawless with an ST/Sinclair Spectrum/ZX81. They're comparable to a linear CRT.

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Postby Heavy Stylus » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:34 pm

techie_alison wrote:On my Samsung I get what could almost be described as digital compression artifacts. You know, when you watch Sky sometimes and you see blatent MPEG compression on shadows and things.


That's exactly what I'm getting here to. It looks similar to the screenshots on your logicsays.com.
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Postby earx » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:41 pm

i use a samgun 710MP with my falcon to do rgb and vga.

pros:

- rgb and vga in one
- very portable (even in a backpack)
- quite big display (17")
- good speakers
- works as a tv

contras:

- typical lcd motion blur (as opposed to crt)
- rgb only over scart, and vga only over vga cable, still need to switch cables
- 'cinemascope' mode (25MHz RGB videl) has the sides clipped
- i notice some oscillating pixels esp after heavy strobe lights
- no vga 100 Hz (some demos like this) (hell, no monitor these days seems to support these high refresh rates, anymore)

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Postby CiH » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:37 pm

- no vga 100 Hz (some demos like this) (hell, no monitor these days seems to support these high refresh rates, anymore)


I've actually gone back to an CRT screen on my desktop for that very reason (NEC 17 inch), unless the Falcy goes travelling, in which case the reduced footprint of my little 15 inch LCD is very useful for those long overseas car journeys, which is another plus point for the flat screen 8)
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Postby bj » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:46 pm

I bought a 17" ONN LCD TV A017LC Widescreen from microdirect recently for £92 inc vat. It does the job quite well. It has: 2 x Scart, A/V in, S-Vhs, Audio out, Headphones, VGA (PC). Max Res.1280 x 768 . It was a refurbished unit but looks as new to me.

I've tried it with my TT and an ST. With the TT it can do both the colour resolutions and ST mono (of course no TT mono High res). The size of the screen display changes for each resolution. In ST mono res words appear a bit blocky but it's certainly useable. ST colour looks fine for the couple of games I could run on the TT - can't compete with my Philips CM8833 II monitor but wouldn't expect it to.

With my ST through the RF TV connector the colour display for games is not great but useable (I wouldn't). On the other hand connecting via a scart lead gives a very nice colour display for games - bigger than on the Phillips. Had a dabble with Eliminator, Chaos Engine, Sir Fred & a couple of others and colour & sound are very nice with no wierd effects that I can see.
Tried out mono resolution from the ST using a VGA adapter, it works well although shows some blockyness to letters. The mono screen is stetched widthwise a bit but still very useable. This mono display shows a bit of waviness on the grey desktop but I couldn't really notice it when I opened windows or applications.

The bottom line - I threw out my spare PC monitor and I will be retiring the Philips from my living room. In future for most Atari gaming using real hardware I'll be using this LCD TV. I can connect the TT to it or the ST and it's a decent TV too since I'm not looking for massive screen size.
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Postby pop » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:14 pm

BJ, If you were to compare it directly to a colour crt monitor what would you say?

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Postby bj » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:16 am

bj wrote: can't compete with my Philips CM8833 II monitor but wouldn't expect it to.
regards

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Postby Desty » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:47 am

I haven't used my STE since I tried it on our big CRT TV via RF and it looked horribly poo.
I'll have to look into this scandoubler stuff to get it on the basically unused (crappy Celeron box with Ubuntu and shag all RAM/hard disk space) Dell LCD upstairs.
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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby FatRakoon » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:00 pm

I used a 15" on my TT... I cannot for the life of me remember what model it was, but it compensated for the TT's "Not quite there" output where there would be a huge white border on the right and instead, the border was about a quarter of an each all round... Very nice.

I used it with my Falcon too, but, like a prick that I am, I knocked it over and at the time, it was balanced on a speaker and it hit the PSU right on the corner and this simply stabed the screen.

Im not back on a CRT for a bit and I am looking to buy as small a screen as possible... Im actualyl hoping to get an 8" or a 10" as this will really be out of the way as I mostly use my Falcon these days for CuBase and not much else.

The Best display I ever had on my ST in colour, was actually with using the screen from my old CPC464.

I remember that I had to do a few things to get it there however... I had the basic pinouts, and there was both HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL SYNC on one, and only the one on the other... Cant remember which but a quick check on the pinouts of the ST Video port wil answer that one, and I just shorted both the Vertical and Horizonals all together.. Im sure in the plug actually, and also the display was hellishly dark... Or was it too bright? - no, it was too dark, and I had to adjust the presets a little to get the display a more sensible "Atari Compatible".

I used that screen for 3 or so years, until I got my first Mono Screen... Never bothered with going back to colour, and in fact, that was also the time when I stopped using my ST for games too.
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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby techie_alison » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:17 pm

We're still on the hunt for a picture perfect RGB input (SCART) LCD. The Samsung I'm using and quite a few others just process the input to death. MY Panasonic does it too.

The best image I've had here is still from a Philips 8833-II CRT. The signals are going practically straight to the RGB guns.

The outputs from an ST are literally just uS (microseconds) off. Fine for an RGB, but not for a digitally perfect LCD. In communication terms you're sending output to a computer processor, not some RGB guns based on quantum theory.

This must affect SO MANY people, right from the old Pong games, Atari 2600, through the Sinclair and Commodores, and right up to the Megadrives. The ZX81 on both LCDs here (and the scan box) just produces a black screen with the cursor barely visible as a feint hue (widely documented).
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Re: Who here uses a TFT/LCD screen with their Atari?

Postby FatRakoon » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:48 pm

OMFG I have just realised... I have a Scart cable for the ST !!!!

( I got it for the Falcon but it has an adapter for the Falcons port - should still be fine though ? )

I think I will have a look to see if any of our flt screens are any cop
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LCD screen on my Atari TT030 with no problems?

Postby TTowner » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:50 pm

If anyone is going to run a TT030 and wants a decent LCD monitor. I just bought a NEC LCD flat panel multisync 19". I found this to be more than adequate for all the TT resolutions but have yet to try the Hi res TT on it. Maybe I will need a switch box or an adapter to connect to the secondary input this monitor has.

I am hoping that this monitor will do the work of showing all the resolutions the TT can display, but if it won't then I am still happy with what it can do.
I did resize the screen for the TT and the monitor copes very well with the adjustment.
The monitor was bought for less than £100.00 of Ebay and is a NEC multisync 1970 NX.

My TT setup will sooon have a graphic card attached so I will update all on the result of this experiment.
in the meantime If I need a hand setting up hi res on this monitor I will let you know.

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