Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

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Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Sturm » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:52 pm

I was just wondering if it was possible or easy to "enhance" ST games for the Falcon ?

Of course, I think this should be a pain to change the graphics or add more colours, but what about music or sound?

For example, Speedball 2 or Chaos Engine don't have samples or ingame music, unlike the Amiga version.
Would it be hard to include them in a special Falcon version ?

I'm asking, because this Wings of Death version includes the Amiga music which is quite nice (funnily, i prefer the st music in that game).

http://d-bug.mooo.com/

Is it a lot of work to find and replace music and sound fx ?

Thanks !

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Grazey / PHF » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:19 pm

Yes it's pretty easy.

I also did ninja remix with the Amiga music and also Giana Sisters (both on D-Bug)

It's just a matter of patching the init and play routines

It's also possible to make similar enhancements in the STe depending on how efficient the replay code is.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Sturm » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:01 pm

Too bad I can't do it :-)
Some games would really benefit from music and more sound effects : Speedball 2, Chaos Engine, Dungeon Master (footsteps and warcry sounds)...

Back in the 90's i was impressed by the Amiga soundwise. Not that much anymore, because i think the Atari chip has more warmth and oomph than the Amiga samples.
But i'd be happy to have them when the ST versions are silent.
If anyone wants to do it or to teach me :-)

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:29 am

I would not say that it's easy. Music self may be not big deal, but replacing effects needs more interventions, not to mention that need to find good source of samples. And you can do all it on STE practically, except when lot of RAM is needed (but can use mass storage too).
We have enhanced Giana Sisters with fine scroll and sampled effects for STE, what works on Falcon too.
Sampled effects sound better usually, and good thing is that no slowdown of computer during playback.
Surely would be nice to do Dungeon Master and Prince of Persia for instance. But not easy to find or extract effects from Amiga versions.
Example of long background music from Flash card: http://atari.8bitchip.info/SCRSH/xen2s.html
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Sturm » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:48 am

AtariZoll wrote:Surely would be nice to do Dungeon Master and Prince of Persia for instance. But not easy to find or extract effects from Amiga versions.


I found them here :

http://dungeon-master.com/files/sounds_PCDM.zip

http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... 27&t=29212

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Grazey / PHF » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:15 pm

Well quite a few games select sfx by passing a number in a data reg to the music/sound routine - just like a sub tune.

CJ / D-Bug / Reboot - uses this method to make Jaguar ports for many ST games - featuring sampled fx.

It's especially easy for arcade conversions as u can nick the fx/samples from the original mame-arcade versions.

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariCrypt » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:45 pm

AtariZoll wrote:We have enhanced Giana Sisters with fine scroll and sampled effects for STE, what works on Falcon too.
Sampled effects sound better usually, and good thing is that no slowdown of computer during playback.


Hi all,
I'm not a Falcon owner (sadly) , but I do like this idea of Sturm. However, I would personally push for the STe with mass storage instead. So streamed music or indeed DMA samples for sound effects... in other words, just like Peter has done with Cannon Fodder, Xenon 2, Giana Sisters, etc. These are awesome so I'd like to see more games converted for STe gamer w/ a hard drive. Surely Falcon support would also work as a bonus?

Steve
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby alienkidmj12 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:52 pm

applecrypt, you mentioned some games there, are they available on a website somewhere ?

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariCrypt » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:55 pm

alienkidmj12 wrote:applecrypt, you mentioned some games there, are they available on a website somewhere ?


Linked from AtariCrypt website (of course, how could I not) ;-)
But you'll find that over on 8BitChip of Peter's... http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd.php
Enjoy : )
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Sturm » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:20 pm

I could help with the music maybe if you're reluctant to use Amiga mods :-)

https://soundcloud.com/m-fredr/wings-of ... hen-hippel

But what would be the ideal format ? Mp3 is not an option I think, Wav is too big...(I use Cubase 8 and hardware synths).
Maybe I should learn to use trackers :-)

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby leech » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:42 am

Not to derail the thread, but what bout Atari 8bit games enhanced for the ST? :) Would kill for a 16bit version of Jumpman.

It's funny that I when I really seriously try to think of old games I loved, I'm having a hard time thinking of some on the ST/Amiga, loved my 8-bit.

More on topic; I was asking about getting a Falcon enhanced version of Ultima 6 in another thread. That's one that ended up with pretty much EGA graphics for the ST/Amiga port, while the DOS version got VGA. If we could build out some sort of enhanced version for the Falcon, that'd rock. Though while we're at that, may as well port exult and the u6project that of which name eludes me at the moment...

Granted, the Wings of Death image does make me remember that it was one of my favourite on the ST, but it's just about perfect (maybe up the sampling rate of some of the digitized sounds?)

Based on doing DSP enhanced things specifically, something like Megalomania would be fantastic as well. "Huh, I don't think so..."
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 pm

but what bout Atari 8bit games enhanced for the ST?


That would be very difficult since it's a different processor. You would need to rewrite the entire game so it would not be an enhanced version but instead a new game.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:04 pm

I did Dungeon Master enhancement with samples via STE (compatible) audio DMA, So, it works on STE, Mega STE, TT, Falcon. Min RAM is 2MB, and needs some mass storage - hard disk or Flash card and adapter.
http://atari.8bitchip.info/DM_ADMA.ZIP
On Falcon sounds much better. Did not have chance to test on TT, so if someone can do it, would be nice.
I plan to do pure floppy version of this, then 1MB will be enough, of course without statesaves.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariCrypt » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:13 pm

I never knew about DM with DMA samples!!! OMG!!
I must download it right now - thank you!!
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby leech » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:00 am

I set a reminder on my phone to test it out on the TT030 tomorrow after work, since I have mine set up at the moment.

Does this include Chaos Strikes Back?
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Omikronman » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:45 am

Have a look into some games of the Reservoir Gods. They completely made new the classic Bubble Bobble game in beautiful Falcon colors and sound! :D

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:09 am

leech wrote:I set a reminder on my phone to test it out on the TT030 tomorrow after work, since I have mine set up at the moment.
Does this include Chaos Strikes Back?

I will do Chaos Strikes Back too soon.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby leech » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:29 am

@AtariZoll Sweet, played Dungeon Master on my TT030, and even from the Internal Speaker, it sounded decent enough. Will be playing it some more when it's not so late at night and I don't have to work the next day...

Does it run at the same speed as on the ST? (I can't recall, this did seem to be extremely fast, but I don't recall the game ever really being slow anyhow.)

Anytime you need testing on TT030 for anything, let me know. Mine so far seems to support more of the adapted games than my 1040STe which is odd...
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:43 pm

On faster machines Dungeon Master runs little faster than on 8 MHz ST, but never unplayable fast. Better is to say that runs smoother.

Did Chaos Strikes Back too: http://atari.8bitchip.info/SCRSH/chsbs.html

DL page for DM: http://atari.8bitchip.info/SCRSH/dmrd.html
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariCrypt » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:33 pm

I've told the wife to go out shopping on Saturday. I want a quiet house this weekend to fully enjoy Dungeon Master STe!
Cheers Peter. Don't stop the STe Train and continue on with other games ;D
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby Sturm » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:09 pm

There are no footsteps sounds it seems, unlike the Amiga version, but it makes the game stressful even more. Can't decide what is best for the game experience :p

Atarizoll, you should make some kind of tutorial :D

I'd love to be able to add some sounds to my favourite games :mrgreen:

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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby leech » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:01 pm

So the thing about Dungeon Master... The ST was the first version of it, and we got the updated 1.2. But if you look at the version on the Amiga, it is 2.0. They added footsteps and I believe there is a heartbeat sound when one of your characters are heavily wounded.

They also added in a sound for the Warcry, which I believe was at least left out of Dungeon Master 1.0 on the ST. I can't recall off the top of my head of other things, but there is one of the many Dungeon Master fan sites that talk all about it.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:47 pm

ST version was done with lot of efforts to make it work on 512K machines, while Amiga v. needs 1 MB RAM. They used really every available RAM space, and samples were in pretty compact format. There are 21 samples in DM, and total length is only 17 KB. For instance same sample is used for rat and dragon attack. PC version has 35 different samples. Chaos Strikes Back uses complete same sample set as ST DM.
I kept original sample count, because adding new ones would need really lot of changes in code, and probably hundreds of hours work. Beside better sound quality, game speed is little better too.
Tutorial would be: you need good knowledge of 68000 asm, Atari ST(E) and plenty of time. No simple recipes. In case of DM and CSB big help was that there is lot of tools and files available, so good quality samples too. I was able to extract original samples with names using special tool (DMEXTRACT - what I used to make loading faster too, some years ago). DM was really popular, and is probably game what is most examined, modded, done most clones, etc.

I'm in process of improving sound in Prince of Persia. Samples during play are already redone (with STE DMAA), and now no slowdowns during sound effects. Samplerate in POP is bigger than in DM, but that makes bigger slowdowns. However, it was good for me, because couldn't find good samples online, so I converted original ones. All it is pretty different in POP than in DM. But harder part is yet to do: need to find a way for quality music playback, what will not need plenty of RAM. I'm already at edge of 1MB RAM required. May be that will just use direct hard disk read and longer sample file for title music, and ingame, shorter tunes will be in RAM - most likely 2MB RAM will be needed, without GAMEX. Quality sound has it's price. But I guess that most of people has already 4MB in their STEs.
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby leech » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:34 pm

I have been prompting some young people to design Dungeon Master for the HTC Vive. Mainly because it would be epic. The current crop of dungeon crawlers for VR are pretty basic. Like the difference between Basic D&D vs Advanced...
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Re: Enhance ST games for the Falcon ?

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:18 pm

Negative feedback has usually positive effect.


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