Commercial games using sync scrolling

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AtariZoll
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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:47 pm

I did not see any problems on my STE and MSTE.
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AtariCrypt
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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariCrypt » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:02 pm

I'll have to dig out the old TV from my attic because I'm guessing it's my VGA multisync? NEC 1970nxp
But it works fine for everything else.. so Im a bit confused!
Made a quick video : https://youtu.be/5XxmEZuxakg
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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby ijor » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:09 pm

AtariCrypt wrote:Sorry to drag this old topic up again, but No Buddies also blanks out the screen on my STe. I've tried PP's adaptation along with the Fuzion CD 152 :-(


I don't know about those adaptations, but the original game alters sync. So the result depends on the exact monitor.

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby troed » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I did not see any problems on my STE and MSTE.


AtariCrypt wrote:I'll have to dig out the old TV from my attic because I'm guessing it's my VGA multisync? NEC 1970nxp
But it works fine for everything else.. so Im a bit confused!
Made a quick video : https://youtu.be/5XxmEZuxakg


There's no confusion about it. It doesn't matter if you run it on ST, STE or MSTE etc - the game modifies the sync signals sent to the monitor while scrolling. Some TVs/monitors won't care (likely old analog stuff) but the result should best be described as unpredictable. Even those that don't blank out (because of faulty sync signals) will likely still show "bent lines" etc.

I'm surprised such a sync scroll ever made it into a commercial game. As described earlier in the thread, they're wasting enough scanlines to have been able to use a "regular" sync scroll instead - even a copy of the _very_ conservative 20 lines one from Enchanted Land.

/Troed

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby ijor » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:12 pm

troed wrote:I'm surprised such a sync scroll ever made it into a commercial game. As described earlier in the thread, they're wasting enough scanlines to have been able to use a "regular" sync scroll instead - even a copy of the _very_ conservative 20 lines one from Enchanted Land.


But did they know what exactly they were doing? Probably not.

Even Enchanted Land, I bet Nick didn't know about his own wierd sync calibration (that broke all emulators for quite some time).

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:00 am

troed wrote:There's no confusion about it. It doesn't matter if you run it on ST, STE or MSTE etc - the game modifies the sync signals sent to the monitor while scrolling. Some TVs/monitors won't care (likely old analog stuff) but the result should best be described as unpredictable. Even those that don't blank out (because of faulty sync signals) will likely still show "bent lines" etc.
I'm surprised such a sync scroll ever made it into a commercial game. As described earlier in the thread, they're wasting enough scanlines to have been able to use a "regular" sync scroll instead - even a copy of the _very_ conservative 20 lines one from Enchanted Land.
/Troed


Well, it works fine with my TV cards, which can be considered as partially analog.

And I'm not surprised at all that it went into commercial games. There is lot of bad coding in them, lack of testing - like game crashes with 1MB or 2MB or 4MB RAM in machine. Not to mention bad IKBD code, etc. If it worked on programmers and testers Ataris then it was considered as well done - in numerous cases.
Ah, and again - Enchanted Land is poor scroller in gameplay :D
English language is like bad boss on workplace: it expecting from you to strictly follow all, numerous rules, but self bending rules as much likes :mrgreen:

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariCrypt » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:15 pm

Time to dig out the old SCART TV to play this then.... thanks all
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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby troed » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:18 pm

It would likely be "simple" to patch the sync scrolling of this game - using modern sync clean 0-byte lines instead. Besides a small timing patch within the sync scroll a wakestate-detection would also need to be inserted, and .. that's that.

I'll put it on my very long todo of things to play with, sometimes ;)

(And I guess building on top of AtariZoll's versions seem sensible)

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariCrypt » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:49 pm

How can we help to push you along? : )
Free beer maybe? :cheers:
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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby ijor » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:15 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Ah, and again - Enchanted Land is poor scroller in gameplay :D


May be. But it is easy to criticize 30 years later :)

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Re: Commercial games using sync scrolling

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:25 pm

ijor wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:Ah, and again - Enchanted Land is poor scroller in gameplay :D


May be. But it is easy to criticize 30 years later :)


It is from 1990. And there were good horizontal scrollers on Atari at that time. The problem with Enchanted Land is that people sees intro, and then talks about it like whole game has some impressive horizontal scroll, while gameplay has it not at all :D
Basically, I don't criticize game here, but shallow opinions.
English language is like bad boss on workplace: it expecting from you to strictly follow all, numerous rules, but self bending rules as much likes :mrgreen:


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