Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby DarkLord » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:54 pm

Fully agree about Corporation - great game.
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:19 am

Winding up my Lost games Research across all formats, found a potentially previousily unknown Konix Multisystem game last night, details passed onto Mark at Slipstream website, but i still want to try and find out, if at all possible, the answer to question of ST Chuck Rock II.

Found+contacted another Ex-Core Design coder from ST/Amiga era, very, very long shot he'll know anything as he left before game was released on Amiga and didn't work on any Chuck Rock game himself...

My vain hope is he might of been there when development on Chuck Rock II was begun and have an idea which formats were considered.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:30 am

lostdragon wrote:Winding up my Lost games Research across all formats, found a potentially previousily unknown Konix Multisystem game last night, details passed onto Mark at Slipstream website, but i still want to try and find out, if at all possible, the answer to question of ST Chuck Rock II.

Found+contacted another Ex-Core Design coder from ST/Amiga era, very, very long shot he'll know anything as he left before game was released on Amiga and didn't work on any Chuck Rock game himself...

My vain hope is he might of been there when development on Chuck Rock II was begun and have an idea which formats were considered.



Thanks for not giving up on it :cheers:
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby kodak80 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:46 pm

I appreciate your time on this one lostdragon.
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:08 pm

:-) Thanks guys.

I hate admitting defeat..whilst there's an ember of hope...a contact not at least approached (ok, so maybe they cannot answer, but might, just might be able to put me in touch with someone who can......) i'll damn well claw out an email.


You honestly never know where your going to find info from, even when your not directly looking for it.

Case in point:Today i approached a person who worked on 2 canned PS2 titles i wanted to know more on, turns out he'd also worked on a released Jaguar title, so thought it'd be rude not to ask about that whilst there....

At the end of the day, all i can do is email and ask...

My hopes are at very least person might be able to say how the ST was viewed as a commercial platform, by time he left Core, that would help gauge how likely an ST version of Chuck Rock II was to happen.

My own thoughts are that at this time the ST had been abandoned, Core getting VERY comfortable with SEGA, numerous platforms out there (Master system/Mega Drive/Game Gear and Mega CD).Sega paid well and on time.......no piracy issues to speak of....

Whats not to like?

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:38 pm

I can only assume as the Amiga version came out, Core might have started it on the ST, but thought they would pull the plug and concentrate on consoles instead ?

I'm assuming its a sales driven thing. If sales were not doing well on the Amiga (and ST probably) , then they might have just thought "sod it" and pull the plug on the ST stuff aswell even though CR2 was half way being coded.

Where the "coding team" may have done a CR ST and Amiga, but they thought they would try the console market instead of the CR2 for the ST. :shrug:

I can't see them doing CR2 for Amiga and not even starting the ST version, but obviously something happend as CR2 never came out for the ST. Can only assume CR2 for the ST was being coded but never finished and they just went into consoles instead. Bad sales on Amiga for CR2 probably and with consoles being more popular.. it kinda would make sense.
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:12 am

May i give some arguments ?

Here they are :

- CR2 was shelved in november 1991 by Core Design, because the team had to finish the job on a Mega CD game. They have only been able to restart the development 6 month later (April 92) on CBM machines and MD/MCD.

- CR2 has been coded by Dan and Paranoid of Anarchy, 2 famous Amiga demo-sceners. CR was coded by Egon (Chris Long) on ST.

A link on the restart and preview of the game :

http://amr.abime.net/review_38117 (see page 1)

The game sold very well on the Amiga, and also on consoles. From the information i have in my possession, the game was never planned for ST.

Another thing, Core pulled the plug on the ST in 1992 with Jaguar XJ220 (canned), and CR2 was only completed at 80% for the Amiga in february 93.

There is one guy, which lost dragon could ask for, it's Rob Toone, he was the main coder for ST at Core Design, he has coded Action Fighter, CarVup, Frenetic, Rick Dangerous, And Thunderhawk on the Atari ST. The 3rd St coder was John Kirkland (War Zone, Wolfchild).
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:20 pm

:-) It's actually Rob Toone i've approached (yet to hear from though, hence not wishing to name him earlier in case nothing came of it).

I think once Core canned an ST project like XJ220, that was it, all ST plans were firmly off the table, myself.The ST had been eclipsed by the Amiga and now consoles were making strong inroads themselves, i doubt, personally Core saw the sales of future ST games being there to justify the development time.

Any coding much just of been inital test routine type stuff, little real progress made on game coding itself.

All utter speculation on my part, but i've always raised an eyebrow when folks elsewhere have tried to claim the Jaguar could of done so much better here in the UK, if only Atari UK had more day 1 stocks, as the ST was still strong in the market...that's so far from the ST era i recal as a gamer...games like Myth canned, despite apparently quite far along, release schedules listing Amiga/PC only, no ST versions.



Short of the mags running some sort of support campain, a la Civilization on ST, to show Core there was a demmand for Chuck Rock II from paying ST customers, i see little there to convince them the ST was worth backing, sad as it is to say.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby calimero » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:12 pm

^
when you mention Myst on Amiga: it was done by guys from Belgrade during sanction against Serbia. I am not sure if there are infos about making Myst on english but it was really, should we say: interesting story!
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:53 am

lostdragon wrote::-) It's actually Rob Toone i've approached (yet to hear from though, hence not wishing to name him earlier in case nothing came of it).


Indeed, he was the man :)

I think once Core canned an ST project like XJ220, that was it, all ST plans were firmly off the table, myself.The ST had been eclipsed by the Amiga and now consoles were making strong inroads themselves, i doubt, personally Core saw the sales of future ST games being there to justify the development time.

Any coding much just of been inital test routine type stuff, little real progress made on game coding itself.


Well, if you have doubt, you can try to contact Dan Scott (Dan/Anarchy) as he was the main coder for CR2.

All utter speculation on my part, but i've always raised an eyebrow when folks elsewhere have tried to claim the Jaguar could of done so much better here in the UK, if only Atari UK had more day 1 stocks, as the ST was still strong in the market...that's so far from the ST era i recal as a gamer...games like Myth canned, despite apparently quite far along, release schedules listing Amiga/PC only, no ST versions.


You talk about Myth from System3 right ? I thought i heard that the game was completed on ST, but canned..... Maybe asking to Mark Cale ?

Short of the mags running some sort of support campain, a la Civilization on ST, to show Core there was a demmand for Chuck Rock II from paying ST customers, i see little there to convince them the ST was worth backing, sad as it is to say.


Pubishers had a strong policy about computers, beyond a certain amount of years, they just discarded the machine, no matter its strength or not, if people loved it or not, they had to go forward, and let not the coders stay on their backs, they had to train themselves on new hardware.

It's silly to hear, alas i've read many articles in UK press with interviews of PR people, just relating about publishers politics, imagine, one of them had said that publishers had decided of machines' death 10 years in advance.

Let me find it back, and i'll post the text here :)
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:48 pm

Nothing heard back from Rob :-(, already have X amount of interviews out, still awaiting answers, plus content tied up in a GTW article that's been pushed back to yet later in the year, the misc Q's i put in to Unseen64's interviews over past few weeks have gone unanswered it seems, as Luca over on Unseen64, has had NO replies from the people he contacted either, so hopes are not exactly high at present in terms of future contacts, sadly.


Myth? demo appeared of ST version, but as far as i'm aware, ST version never finished, let alone released.

Mark Cale...cough, lets just say both GTW and myself have exchanged emails with Mark over the years, asked about various Lost Games and well, results were not forth coming, instead we've had to contact specific coders, ie in my case Andy Roberts, to find out what became of......

Mark doesn't seem to want to talk about what was never released.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Well, it appears Dan Scott has been quoted as sayinmg he coded Wonderdog for the Sega Mega CD and the MCD/MegaDrive version of Chuck Rock was based around that MCD Wonderdog game engine....

Work then started on Chuck Rock II (Amiga) after that and then he decided to convert Wonderdog to the Amiga.

So, to myself, it really does seem clear that by this moment in time (and going by what Richard Barc.told me) Core were developing primilarly on the Sega formats, Amiga came second and it looks like the ST was seen as no longer commercially viable.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:00 pm

ST Myth i believe was:Laurie Sinnet/Martin Wheeler?

Just dropped Martin an email, if i hear anything back, i'll update everyone.
Also, looking at comments in the Press around early'92:

You saw likes of Jez San saying he was abandoning the ST, Andy Green (Virgin Games) who was then working on Rookies, saying whilst coding had started on the ST, he soon switched to the Amiga....

So the ST was pretty much put out to pasture.

Plus, regarding canned Core Design games..didn't they can a Sega Game Gear title, Trunski, to ramp up Mega CD development further still?...

Most of what i've read seems to indicate focus was firmly on MD/MCD development 1st and foremost.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:01 pm

Probably THE last Core Design ST/Amiga era coder approached by myself tonight regarding this and so far, just an automated message saying company he know works for, has recieved my email :-(

But i did get a result from name i passed over to Mark at Slipstream, regarding Lost Konix Multisystem conversion of C64 Sailing:

http://www.konixmultisystem.co.uk/index ... evin#start

So there is yet hope :-)

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:23 pm

I was gutted ST Myth didn't come out, I loved that demo on the Zero magazine disk. The ST version looked almost identical the Amiga one.
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:35 pm

Well i did put the question of ST Myth never being released/finished to Mark Cale along with question of:

Atari 800/130 XE The Last Ninja, advertised as due out on 28th Feb 1987, nothing ever seen of it.

Bangkok Knights advertised as playing soon on Atari 800/130 XE and ST.Again, nothing ever seen of those.

Along with what became of 1040ST previews of The Last Ninja.....

Strangely that was the last i ever heard from Mark.....cough.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:43 pm

Looked at the Amiga Press previewing Chuck Rock 2.Hmnn...

Core's own advanced adverts for the game never listed any formats for starters.

The One claim coding started in Nov'91 with the game concept being put down before the 1st Chuck Rock game was even finished.

They also stated the game had been put on hold for 6 weeks, so the team could work on a 'more pressing' Mega CD title....

Lot of talk of the game boasting larger and more colourful sprites than the original, 3 layers of Parallax, more complex A.I etc....'pushing the Amiga to it's limits'....

Doesn't sound like an ideal STFM game to be honest, maybe if the STE had been a different story at retail and/or the Falcon, we could of seen a conversion?.

Also, Richard Morton has described his first job at Core being to convert all the Chuck II graphics onto Amiga......so if anyone knows how to contact him, he might be a viable source?

:-) Feel like i'm researching RG mags article here ;-)

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:57 pm

Pah, take the parallax out, put some slightly jerky horizontal scrolling in and the plain ST will be fine with anything the Amiga can do ;)

I was always surprised how similar the Myth ST demo was to the Amiga final release, as with a lot of the later games seems it was less a case of the Amiga's 'untapped potential' finally being realised with many games, more a case of games just getting better written by more professional teams.
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:13 am

:-) This is true, a cut down ST version could of been done, but wether Core felt there was still a viable ST market out there worth devoting resources too...i've yet to discover.

Just emailed another Ex-Core Design person from this era (this must be the last one i can think of) so that's 2 tonight alone.Asked him about this and Core's 'annouced by UK Press' Sega 32X and Jaguar claims, which so far have turned out to be UK Press telling yet more stories that had no grounding in reality.

Maybe he'll reply, maybe not, but for sake of an email, worth a punt.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:28 pm

Few misc closing bits:

Emailed yet another Ex-Core Design person, they were there during the later Amiga years so might know something...?

Also, Mean Machines claimed Mega CD Chuck Rock 2 didn't use the custom sprite-scaling hardware, instead used the software routines used on the cartridge version, instead, so it, like Wolfchild seemed a pretty basic port..slap CD intro on, throw in CD music, sampled sounds...so i wonder IF team/s felt over-streched on Sega formats? having to do game on:MD/MCD/MS and GG?

And GRRRR!.Talking of UK Mag claims, was 'chatting' to GTW's Frank Gasking over ZZap64's claims they'd seen Amstrad CPC version of Elite's canned Scooby Doo game, running, it seems only the ZX Spectrum version was ever started, so my confidence is not exactly high this won't turn out to be yet another B.S UK Mag claim.

If you write for a professional publication, i expect professional standards and that's proper research, not speculation or just making things up...

Zzap/Edge/Zero/TGM/ACE and so forth :-

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:41 am

Update time:

I had an email back from Ged Keaveney, whom i asked on the off-chance he might of known IF ST Chuck Rock II was ever started, his reply:

'For Chuck Rock II I honestly don’t recall the details, I’d worked with the guys (Chris, Lee etc) to help out with a few bits but it was their project and I had my own projects, also my memory is hazy after all this time'

I also asked if he had any idea if claims that another titile, Litil Divil, was at least planned to appear on likes of MegaDrive/Jaguar etc, were true:


 

'As for Litil Divil that really isn’t something I know about. Jerr and I created the first draft of that game on Amiga at Gremlin but then we moved on to setup The 8th Day and didn’t have anything to do with it after that.'

So sadly nothing much to report, but i appreciated Ged taking the time to get back to me and share his involvement with projects.

The search continues :-)

 

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:25 pm

:D Ok, with a lot of luck, the question of what became of ST Chuck Rock II should at least be in the process of being passed onto a few more people from Core Design (on my behalf) inc:
Bob Churchill and Chris Long


Fingers crossed....

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby lostdragon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:40 pm

:-( Nothing heard back from Bob or Chris as of yet, plus request for info on my behalf should of also of gone to:

Mark Watson, Barry Irvine, Gary Antcliffe, Jim Bottomley and Mark Avery.

There's simply NOTHING more i can now do.

If 1 or more of the Ex-Core crew has info/time to reply, i'll let you know.

But i've reached out as far as i can go and question has now been passed onto more Ex-Core Design people than i ever dared hope for.

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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby exxos » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:44 pm

lostdragon wrote::-( Nothing heard back from Bob or Chris as of yet, plus request for info on my behalf should of also of gone to:

Mark Watson, Barry Irvine, Gary Antcliffe, Jim Bottomley and Mark Avery.

There's simply NOTHING more i can now do.

If 1 or more of the Ex-Core crew has info/time to reply, i'll let you know.

But i've reached out as far as i can go and question has now been passed onto more Ex-Core Design people than i ever dared hope for.



Thanks for keeping up on it!

Does seem to hint towards the ST version got pulled in favour for consoles then ?
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Re: Chuck Rock 2 - what happened to it?

Postby kodak80 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:29 pm

I have been keeping an eye on this thread and really appreciate your efforts in tracking down contacts and seeking information. :cheers:
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