Pacmania STE - New Version

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:33 am

Wow, I missed this first time. Very impressive! I'll keep this game permanent in my Steem drive! :cheers:

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby calimero » Wed May 13, 2015 5:30 pm

maybe someone would find interesting this video from Shaun Hollingworth. He converted this arcade classic to the ZX Spectrum, the Atari ST, the Commodore Amiga, and the Acorn Archimedes ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU23fEL154k
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby grobda » Fri May 29, 2015 12:22 pm

nice to see this got finished :D did you keep any of my redrawn sprite graphics? looks like it from the screenshots.

i've been playing pacmania quite a lot recently. on the acorn a3000, great version.

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Sun May 31, 2015 9:30 am

grobda wrote:nice to see this got finished :D did you keep any of my redrawn sprite graphics? looks like it from the screenshots.

i've been playing pacmania quite a lot recently. on the acorn a3000, great version.


Pacman uses the dither sprites that I think you created? The other sprites and graphics are from the Amiga version. The Amiga used 16 colors for the backgrounds/ghosts and 16 separate colors (so a total of 32) for Pacman, so he was the only thing that had to be redone. The dither version of him looks good enough I think.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby grobda » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:54 am

Zamuel_a wrote:
grobda wrote:nice to see this got finished :D did you keep any of my redrawn sprite graphics? looks like it from the screenshots.

i've been playing pacmania quite a lot recently. on the acorn a3000, great version.


Pacman uses the dither sprites that I think you created? The other sprites and graphics are from the Amiga version. The Amiga used 16 colors for the backgrounds/ghosts and 16 separate colors (so a total of 32) for Pacman, so he was the only thing that had to be redone. The dither version of him looks good enough I think.


I got round to trying it on a real ST (I dont like emulators) and It's very impressive :cheers: Nice to see my dithered pacman in action 8) I do think its better than the non-dithered original. But then I would. :lol: I'd probably put the white highlight back on if the colour was available (I didnt like the grey highlight on the original as it was darker than the yellow).

I had to put in in an auto folder or I got a TOS #35 error.

Would be nice if it saved hiscores. :mrgreen:

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:32 pm

I had to put in in an auto folder or I got a TOS #35 error.


Strange. I have never had it in an auto folder. I have usually started it from the hard disk and sometimes from a floppy in TOS.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby toryu » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:45 am

greetings!

i wonder why non of the latest gaming achievments use the jag/powerpad support which came with the ste. is it so hard to implement? i prefer these ones and they are a requirement for all of my "games" i build (even if it is not the best decision... more buttons and a much better handling then most of the standard pads and joystick)

/edit: even if it makes no sense here at least giana sister would be much more playable if jumping wouldnt be anymore on the d-pad up. in my oppinion this is one of the oddest things ever done in jump'n runs. and of yourse this is no "just do it"-post. just my thoughts to think about. the ste/falcon give this great oppotunity to us, why we should not use it, if we use all the other fancy feature :)
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:02 am

toryu wrote:greetings!
i wonder why non of the latest gaming achievments use the jag/powerpad support which came with the ste. is it so hard to implement? i prefer these ones and they are a requirement for all of my "games" i build (even if it is not the best decision... more buttons and a much better handling then most of the standard pads and joystick)
/edit: even if it makes no sense here at least giana sister would be much more playable if jumping wouldnt be anymore on the d-pad up. in my oppinion this is one of the oddest things ever done in jump'n runs. and of yourse this is no "just do it"-post. just my thoughts to think about. the ste/falcon give this great oppotunity to us, why we should not use it, if we use all the other fancy feature :)

I think that most of people dealing with Atari games simply have not such goodies. And it may be little pricey to order it from other country. Of course, you can do support in emulator, and that should be not too hard (depends from how joystick reading code is solved in game), but testing it in emulator is really not something what can give answer about how it feels on real HW. I personally can not imagine why is so important to play Giana with pad instead joystick. Plus, I guess that there are different controllers with different button layouts, so what is good for one, may be not so good for other.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby toryu » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:14 am

the problem is that most/many of the standard joysticks just support one button (or at least you have to switch between mous and stick). that means that in many shmups you have to switch between keyboard and stick (mostly the spacebar is used to emulate the second button) or in the case of jump'n runs you have to jump pressing the d-pad up thing. i was allways annoyed by that.

and in fact you cant allways support this in emulators some also support just one button for the powerpads. one time more a good feature destroyed by "bad/lazy" programmers. so we have the possibility to enhance the enjoyment, so why not using it? is it so much extra effort of work in assembler or are there any other sideeffects i did not stumbled above so far?

/edit: this isnt a problem of pacmania itself ofcourse... but in seams that in the last time to many people forget that the ste is more the stereo sound and more colours. thats a bit sad
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Stefan jL » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:51 am

Zamuel's STE Giana Sisters do support the jaguar gamepad.
Although Giana Sisters is not really a game that needs a second button to play, it works very well anyway.

Most ST games was designed for one button so they should be just fine with one button but there are exceptions of course and two good examples that i can think of right now is Robocop and Dynamite Dux wich has the jump button on the keyboard wich is really stupid as jumping is important to the gameplay for those two games to be played properly.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:18 am

I always hate to play platform games with a joystick. I used to play games on both my Nintendo and Atari and it was so much better to play on the Nintendo. You never get any precision when you must use the joystick to both control the left right movement and the jumping. What I did was to rewire a Nintendo NES game pad so that it worked on the Atari and I connected the A button (normal button for jumping in NES games) to the joystick up button, so I got them separated and that worked perfect. :)

The STE game ports are better than the normal joystick port. They have direct input signals so you don't need to create a IKBD interrupt for it. Just poll the ports when you want to check the joystick data. This is better for time critical programs there you don't want to have interrupts to occur at any time.
If you don't have a jaguar gamepad, it is rather easy to solder some adapter for other game pads here to. (I think a SEGA 16bit game pad would be very easy to change the connector on so that it fits here and gives 3 button support.)
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby StanZ » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:57 pm

Not sure if I downloaded the latest version, but I play it since a week. It's a simply bloody fantastic game. What a fast gameplay! Freakin again!!
What I loved back on my 520 STf is the music. Of course the amiga version looked impressive, but now we have the best of the both world :lol: :mrgreen:
I had a little problem with colors when legos are yellow and cyan, it's hard to see the dots... On my Atari 1040 STe/4Mo sometime a ghost could disappears.
Thanks Zamuel_a for this great remake.
:cheers:

PS: I like konix navigator to play Pacmania STE :angel:

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:26 pm

Not sure if I downloaded the latest version,


The version in the first post of this thread is the latest one. (The version with shadows)

I had a little problem with colors when legos are yellow and cyan, it's hard to see the dots...


Are the colors now shown correctly? I have never seen that problem. It should be the same color palette as the Amiga version.

On my Atari 1040 STe/4Mo sometime a ghost could disappears.


I know this can happen. I have seen it a few times, but never been able to find the problem (it never happens when I try to reproduce it). Probably a memory leak or something that is difficult to find.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby CiH » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:06 pm

Hi Zamuel,

Bit of a loaded question I appreciate, but any current or near future plans of an Atari nature?
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby qq1975b » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:35 am

EDIT: understood. Sorry.
Last edited by qq1975b on Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:12 am

future plans of an Atari nature?


Well I'm trying to grow a few Ataris in the garden, but other than that, nothing new in the nature :wink:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby metalages » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:45 pm

I have just tried this new Pacmania version and it looks really cool :)
Thanks for this great work.

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby catmando » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:28 pm

Wow, I just tried this today, looks and plays amazing on my STE on a 42 inch screen. Love the speed increase when you get the green pill. If only this game had been like this back in the day. Superb effort.

Only minor bug I noticed was the screen glitching every now and again, but the game is so well put together it hardly matters.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:44 am

Only minor bug I noticed was the screen glitching every now and again, but the game is so well put together it hardly matters.


This is because the top and bottom border removal needs very precise timing and the game run very near 100% CPU speed when there are many sprites on screen so that can make some glitches.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby troed » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:40 am

Zamuel_a wrote:
Only minor bug I noticed was the screen glitching every now and again, but the game is so well put together it hardly matters.


This is because the top and bottom border removal needs very precise timing and the game run very near 100% CPU speed when there are many sprites on screen so that can make some glitches.


I don't know what your border removal code looks like but demos often run at 100% CPU with stable borders so it's of course doable ;) Whether it's important enough to spend time on is another thing though.

(In Closure I remove the top border by synclocking to HBL, and the lower by synclocking to screen. In both cases I use timer A for a rough estimate and then STOP #$2100 to get closer. This supports 8.01 and 8.02MHz STs, although I suspect when someone with an 8.05MHz machine tries it it will actually fail)

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:53 am

I think it's because of the blitter sprites. If a sprite is drawn at the same time as the border should be removed when you get a problem since the blitter must finish first before any other interrupts can happen. I try to do the sprite drawing after the top border and before the bottom one to get around this problem. The background restore is done in software to get around this problem since it happen in the border removal area. In some cases I think the blitter routines might interfere and give you the glitches. From tests I have seen that if I try to draw ONE more sprite on screen the image start to jump all the time so it's on the edge :wink:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby metalages » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:57 am

Maybe it is possible to use the blitter in HOG mode (and force blitter to restart directly with 68k).
This way you can let interrupts happen while having the blitter running at 90% of its speed (from what I red somewhere).
But if you are really tight on time, loosing 10% in blitting is not acceptable.
Also blitter works on 64 cycles interval => maybe 64 cycles would destabilize the interrupt too much for border removal.
I have use this method to allow some rasters while blitting there https://github.com/gibs75/demOS/blob/ma ... POLYZOOM.S (line 357)

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:30 am

I use that method in my Giana Sisters game, but I don't think it would help here. 64 cycles would be to much to loose for border removal, but I don't use the blitter in the border area anyway so it doesn't matter. I do background save / restore and game logic and all other stuff in the border. The blitter is only used in the normal screen area.
Some sprites are not drawn with the blitter, like the shadows (they are just AND instructions) so they are more interrupt friendly.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Cyprian » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:42 am

metalages wrote:Also blitter works on 64 cycles interval => maybe 64 cycles would destabilize the interrupt too much for border removal.

actually, those "64 cycles" in BLIT mode (Non-HOG) aren't correct.
In case of MegaST/ and STE it is 260 CPU cycle interval - 252 cycles (63 BUS cycles) plus 8 cycles for bus mastering.
in case of MSTE it is 264 CPU cycles - 252 plus 12 bus mastering cycles.
And moreover, BLiTTER in BLIT mode can be slowed-down by a long CPU instruction, like MUL/DIV/bit shift ect.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:04 pm

In my Giana Sisters game I had problems to get a constant time from the blitter so sometimes I had enough time to do anything I wanted in one scanline. Sometimes it took more. I solved that by always waiting 2 scanlines and check the screen address to see if the interrupt triggered on the first (so I have to wait one more line) or on the second line (no wait).
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