Pacmania STE - New Version

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Zamuel_a
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:34 pm

When i said speed, i really meant speed. Pac man moves faster in the C64 version then in the Amiga version. Then if he moves at 12 fps or 100 Fps doesn't really matter.


I guess you are not an programmer? There are two different speeds to handle here. First the framerate. It's 50fps on the Amiga, c64 and my STE version. It's 25 on the ST version, BUT the speed of movement is the same on both ST, STE and Amiga version, just that it isn't as smooth in 25fps compared to 50.
I haven't played the c64 version, but maybe the starting speed of Pacman is higher than the other version. If you get to the later levels, Pacman will go faster and in the final levels he is really fast. Play through all the levels on the Amiga och the STE version and you will see. (The ST version should be the same to)

That's Nintendo Game & Watch. Remove the actual console an keep the screen only, what's left of the Game & Watch experience?

Well I wouldn't try to play a Game & Watch game on an emulator or real life since they are just to primitive and there are better handheld consoles out there :wink:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:44 pm

I have worked as a programmer, but not with games. I wrote "serious stuff" like databases and such for Windows (visual studio). I was talking about the clip on YT "Let's Compare" where the Amstrad version moves like a snail while the Archimedes and arcade version moves like turbo in comparison. The Spectrum version suffered from some slowdowns in a surprisinly good conversion of Pac Mania.

Just for your knowledge, i really don't diss your version of Pac Mania, great work, i'm just a big fan of the orginal ST version since the 90's. ;)

And for Game & Watch

No else in the world could do that...simple LCD graphics in a (still today) fun game. Game & Watch is cult. ;)

If anyone wants to try out these emulators they can be found here. All of them free to download and play.
http://www.madrigaldesign.it/sim/

Another huge collection of hanheld emulators
http://www.handheld.remakes.org/gamesindex.php

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:52 pm

I looked at the c64 version of Pac-mania on youtube and Pacman is faster. I guess this has to do with the 160x200 resolution. In the Atari or Amiga version Pacman starts by moving 0.5 pixels in X for each pixels in Y (this increase to 1.5 in X for the later levels). Since you can't have half pixels the movement is not perfectly smooth, but almost not visible. On the c64s lower resolution this would not look so good at all I guess so the speed is stable with 1 pixel in X for every 2 in Y.

I saw the Amstrad CPC version to and it's really slow, but it looks like they have to redraw everything each frame so I guess they don't have any hardware scrolling on that machine so not much to do.

And if we would get real picky, Amiga version doesn't have anything near the right proportions of the vertical arcade screen.

I know...cut off both the sides and make the screen look like a vertical arcade screen, then place these two to the left and right...


There is a reason for this. You can't show anything less than what the Amiga and my STE version are doing. Or else the hardware scrolling wouldn't work. That's why I removed the top and bottom border to give it a more arcade feeling than using the normal 320x200 screen



Just for your knowledge, i really don't diss your version of Pac Mania, great work, i'm just a big fan of the orginal ST version since the 90's. ;)


I understand this, no problem :wink: I just say that the ST version is worse than it had to be
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Steven Seagal » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:04 pm

Zamuel_a wrote:There is a reason for this. You can't show anything less than what the Amiga and my STE version are doing. Or else the hardware scrolling wouldn't work. That's why I removed the top and bottom border to give it a more arcade feeling than using the normal 320x200 screen


This is of course a limitation of hardware scrolling.
It would have been cool if you could define your "window" to scroll, but implementation is far more complicated (and expensive).
Notice that this limitation also applied to the Amiga, there are always trade-offs.

About this Swedish :) discussion it seems nobody's wrong: Pacmania ST was technically weak, yet it was still fun (and I played it too). Pacmania STE takes advantage of this machine's abilities, which didn't happen enough at the time, and gets close to the Amiga version.

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby AtariCrypt » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:41 pm

Zamuel_a wrote:One thing that was missing in my Pacmania game compared to the Amiga version were shadows. I wasn't able to add it since the game took more or less 100% CPU time, but I took another look at it and was able to optimize it a little bit more so here is a version with shadows :wink:

If it took close to 100% CPU before, it's even closer now, so sometimes the screen might flicker.

I have also fixed some old bugs I found, and probably included some new :wink:

Try it out and see how it works!

PACMANIA_STE_2014.zip


Hi Zamuel_a -this is so superb to play, I totally thank you:-) Do you have a web site to follow for any future updates?
Brilliant work. Hope you do more Atari STE games!
Steve
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:49 pm

This thread is about pacmania ste. Imho it's definitely not helpful at all to use this thread to discuss that a different program (the original pacmania) is better. There's no benefit for anyone as this neither comes with suggestions for improvements or the like nor will it motivate the author of the ste version in any way.

I suggest you start a new thread for telling people that you personally prefer a certain game.

But please stay on topic here and most important neither try to discourage someone who does a great contribution to the community nor try to bind his precious time in useless discussions.

That said: I love the ste version and if I want frames and overlays I'll tape some artwork left and right to my screen. But the screen itself should as vivid and colorful as possible. That's why I play computer games and don't collect stamps.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:59 pm

That's because ST Pac Mania was concidered to be a bad game by some people, and it isn't. It's huge difference between Pac Mania ST and Pac Mania STE, both of them are excellent games in their own right, just pick your personal favourite. Or play both of them.

And that's it.

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby nativ » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:10 am

Great update, thanks! :cheers:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:18 am

Brilliant work. Hope you do more Atari STE games!


Well so far I have made two complete games. Pacmania and Giana Sisters (I added a link to that game in the first post in this thread). Let's see what happens in the future :wink:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby AtariCrypt » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:35 am

Zamuel_a wrote:
Brilliant work. Hope you do more Atari STE games!


Well so far I have made two complete games. Pacmania and Giana Sisters (I added a link to that game in the first post in this thread). Let's see what happens in the future :wink:


Me & my 5yr old have just enjoyed this. Made a video & going to upload to YouTube - she absoluetly loved it. Even tho I had to play & keep on explaining why the ghosts wanted to kill me.. lol

Brilliant works (and I loved GS too!). Keep it up :D
STEve:)
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Greyfox™ » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:33 pm

Anybody manage to get this working on the Android Emulator "Hataroid" I can't seem to be able to mount the .PRG file within the STE desktop as I wanted to run this bad boy on my JXD s7800, would of be possible to have a boot able version (.ST) file type, so I can test it and give back a summery report on how it faired out?

Again many thanks for the wonderful work you've done on this and the incredible Giana Sisters :cheers:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby qq1975b » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:23 pm

Did you create a ST floppy and copied the prg in it?
Trying to learn...

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Greyfox™ » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:51 pm

qq1975b wrote:Did you create a ST floppy and copied the prg in it?


No, as there isn't a mounting facility as far as I can see, it is possible with WinUae but I can't see the feature within Hataroid and was why I asked, maybe there is a way to do it and I'm just been a complete noob :mrgreen: about how to go about it.

Will have another look to see, but I can't see it working, but if someone has made .ST disk for this? could they post it?
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:10 pm

Just transfer this to your mobile (a disk image of Pac Mania STE)
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Greyfox™ » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:35 pm

Thanks ever so much for this, can't wait to give it a bash, cheers Retrogamer_ST :cheers:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby NGF » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:52 am

I just tried Pacmania STE (latest release) on my TT, I didn't suspect it would work and it didn't :P
Would it be possible without alot of rewrites to make it run on the TT? TT lacks the blitter from the STE I guess so it would be too much work?
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:02 pm

NGF wrote:I just tried Pacmania STE (latest release) on my TT, I didn't suspect it would work and it didn't :P
Would it be possible without alot of rewrites to make it run on the TT? TT lacks the blitter from the STE I guess so it would be too much work?


Yes it would be some work. Since the TT isn't so common and usually if you have one, you probably also own an STE (or need to get one ! :wink: )
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby squall » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:18 am

Greyfox™ wrote:No, as there isn't a mounting facility as far as I can see, it is possible with WinUae but I can't see the feature within Hataroid and was why I asked, maybe there is a way to do it and I'm just been a complete noob :mrgreen: about how to go about it.

Will have another look to see, but I can't see it working, but if someone has made .ST disk for this? could they post it?


You can mount any folder on your device as the C drive through the settings:

Settings -> Storage -> Attach GEMDOS drive (Enabled)
Settings -> Storage -> GEMDOS drive directory (choose the folder on your device that you want to mount as the C drive)

This is what Hatari called it, but maybe I might rename them to make it more obvious :)

I tried out both Pacman STE and Giana STE and I'm really impressed by how much of an improvement they are. Amazing work Zamuel!

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:38 pm

I finally verified that PacmaniaSTE still runs on the MiST board. And it does ...

Two small things in the Lego level: The shadows of some studs that are hidden under the bricks are partially visible. And the bottommost row of bricks seems to float in the air. Both not a problem at all for gameplay but hard to ignore for someone who grew up with plenty of lego :D
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby walterj64bit » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:20 am

I'm not late to the party? Thanks, Zamuel_a! For STE patched Pacmania! :cheers:
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:56 am

walterj64bit wrote:I'm not late to the party? Thanks, Zamuel_a! For STE patched Pacmania! :cheers:


Glad you liked it :)
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby mwaawm » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:28 pm

Loving the latest updates to your improved version Zamuel :)
I cant help it if I'm often in doubt but never in the wrong.

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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby catmando » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:49 am

Maybe someone should re-write the review in ST/Amiga Format, issue 6, p65
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:53 pm

I have uploaded a new version in the first post. I was able to optimize it a little more so there are less risk of the total CPU time > 100%, so there should be less flicker. I replaced the Pacman sprite routine with the one Anima came up with and it helped for a 32 pixel wide sprite so a little gain on that one, plus some other things I found. But now this is the limit I think.
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Re: Pacmania STE - New Version

Postby Jake/Depression » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:34 am

Thanks for made this game. It is cool version.
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