Much more could have been done on ST

All about ST/STE games

Moderators: simonsunnyboy, Mug UK, Doctor Bob Gordon, ICS, Moderator Team

Zamuel_a
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:23 am

Well it's not entirely true that Nintendo only released quality games. The amount of games that arrived to Europe were just a small part of the amount that got created (and got released in US or Japan). Many games never arrived to Europe because they were of very bad quality and also many that did come here are bad. Many companies just wanted to produce games at a fast rate and didn't care about quality. Most games based on movies for example are bad on the NES. It's more or less the games made by Nintendo, Konami or Capcom that are good, with a few exceptions ofcourse.
ST / STFM / STE / Mega STE / Falcon / TT030 / Portfolio / 2600 / 7800 / Jaguar / 600xl / 130xe

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:54 am

The real bad games is easily counted on NES.

It was hard to release anything that wasn't good or great because Nintendo must approve any game befor releasing it on NES. No company could rush out bad games. Many developers complained about Nintendo's strict standards and demands. Sometimes they was forced to change their games several times before Nintendo was satisfied. Only the best of the european software houses managed to get their games released on NES. Like Ultimate Play the Game, Hewson, Codemasters etc.

Movie games became quite big sellers on NES too like Robocop, Dick Tracy, Addams Family etc. I can insure you that Dick Tracy for exemple on NES is a lot better then the ST version of the same game.

I think that games like

Vrooom
Stunt Car Racer
Microprose Golf
F16 Falcon
Dungeon Master
Damocles
Mercenary III
Carrier Command
Crystal Kingdom Dizzy
Xenon II
Cybernoid
Lemmings
Sim City
Pro Tennis Tour (great courts)
Sensible Soccer
Jimmy White Snooker
Spindizzy Worlds
Simulcra
Monkey Island

Showed that it was possible to release both fun and well designed games on Atari ST.

Yet so many bad games were released for a quick cash in. Games that often played like crap. Many of Psygnosis early games was pure crap. I remember when i bought the game Leatherneck (by microdeal) for exemple, no playability at all. Then i played Elite's conversion of SNK's arcade hit Ikari Warriors, huge difference.

The worst part was a real bad conversion of an old 8bit game that played like crap. In the end i stopped to buy games because so many bad titles were released, i got fooled more then once into buying a crap game. In the end i bought ripped menu disks to be able to try the games out before buying anything.

That's the way i bought Microprose Golf and Microprose Formula One for exemple.

Open is not always a good thing, sometimes it is, and sometimes not depending of what you want to achieve.

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby christos » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:59 am

Retrogamer_ST wrote:The problem is that it demands so much to write real good games that only a few people can manage it. I'm unfortanly not one of them.



There is nothing stopping you from learning how to code. There is also a plethora of free graphics and music out there you can use. It's only your will to do it that's preventing you from actually doing it. All it demands is some determination. Anything else is just an excuse

Zamuel_a
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:04 am

Just take a look at some of the "Angry video game nerd" show episodes :wink: There are alot of bad games on NES! http://cinemassacre.com/category/avgn/avgnepisodes/
ST / STFM / STE / Mega STE / Falcon / TT030 / Portfolio / 2600 / 7800 / Jaguar / 600xl / 130xe

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:30 am

Zamuel_a wrote:Just take a look at some of the "Angry video game nerd" show episodes :wink: There are alot of bad games on NES! http://cinemassacre.com/category/avgn/avgnepisodes/


Or games that perhaps might look bad today. Same thing can be seen on any other console too, from Sega Megadrive to Nintendo 64. But if you look at it in the whole, NES set might higher standars then ST ever had because anyone could release whatever crap game for ST that hardly wouldn't be a hit even in the PD World.

You forgot to mention

Tecmo
Taito
Irem
Square
Enix
Sunsoft

For exemple, just to name a few of all those who delivered quality games for NES.

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:32 am

christos wrote:
Retrogamer_ST wrote:The problem is that it demands so much to write real good games that only a few people can manage it. I'm unfortanly not one of them.



There is nothing stopping you from learning how to code. There is also a plethora of free graphics and music out there you can use. It's only your will to do it that's preventing you from actually doing it. All it demands is some determination. Anything else is just an excuse


That's how most bad games are born.

From amateurs like me. People who can code but misses everything else a game designer need. Then to release such game at full price or even at budget price is to rip people off.

That's when "open" in most cases is a bad thing.

The well trained pro who working for a big company has all the ability's that i miss to make a real great game. And you don't get far by being able to just do some coding. You need everything else too. That's why people like Shigeru Miamoto design games and i not.

That's a good excuse for me to deal with things that i do know, like photo and picture editing for exemple. ;)

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby christos » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:48 am

no, actually most bad games are born from managers of big companies that do market research. If you'd like to learn a bit more on the subject take a look at extra credits on youtube.

Dio
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Dio » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:02 am

The 1984 video game crash was largely a US phenomenon. At the very least, it didn't affect the UK - 1983-86 were the strongest years of the 8-bit systems.

The UK 'crash' came later, and it was less a consumer crash (consumers made an easy transition from awkward disks and expensive computers to simpler cheap consoles, albeit with relatively expensive cartridges) and more of a publisher / developer one, as UK companies were late to realise that the 16-bit consoles and the platform fee model had forever kicked the legs out from under closed-platform home computers.

You're right that the NES was the only thing that kept on through that market, the console market (in the West) didn't recover until the Megadrive / SNES generation. But that's why there wasn't much interest in the NES in Europe - we hadn't had a crash, "our" systems were thriving.

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Shredder11 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:21 am

In the UK where I live the 8-bit titles were selling well and in good supply, and this did not start to drop until around 1989 when the ST and Amiga became affordable. The 8-bit era lasted much longer and was more successful than the 16-bit era I feel, about twice as long almost.

Zamuel_a
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:14 am

The problem with the ST is the lack of hardware sprites and scrolling so making games to it was more difficult. If you check the Amiga then you can see that there are alot of good games on it.
ST / STFM / STE / Mega STE / Falcon / TT030 / Portfolio / 2600 / 7800 / Jaguar / 600xl / 130xe

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:09 pm

Zamuel_a wrote:The problem with the ST is the lack of hardware sprites and scrolling so making games to it was more difficult. If you check the Amiga then you can see that there are alot of good games on it.


Off course. Most games from Team 17 for exemple were real good. ST had some brilliant titles as well. What i miss is just those extra touches of game design seen on both NES, Megadrive and SNES. The japs were incredible good at making games in the 80's and 90's adding small unique touches to make the games more fun to play. Touches that could easily be added to ST and Amiga games too.

Buying a game for either Atari ST or Amiga was often a surprise affair. Either it was real good, sometimes it sucked big time. And sometimes you had whish for a seal of quality on ST and Amiga too.

Just look at a game as Sonic II for Megadrive or Dragons Quest or Meteroid for NES. Several persons spended a huge amount of time to perfect everything from the game mechanics to small touches in the graphics, level design and sound. Too many games for both ST and Amiga was a work of rush. Super Mario Bros was first using several unique features that most games used as standard years later.

Donkey Kong was a simple platform game, yet the work of an incredible game designer.

User avatar
Anima
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:43 am
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Anima » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:11 pm

Zamuel_a wrote:The problem with the ST is the lack of hardware sprites and scrolling so making games to it was more difficult. If you check the Amiga then you can see that there are alot of good games on it.


In fact, scrolling games were the most popular back in those days so the lack of this feature was biggest drawback on the ST. Also the awkward screen memory organization (interleaved planes) isn't optimal for using software sprites as well. So it's not easy to write a simple game on the ST with sprites (except Tetris clones).

However, good games are not defined by the graphical and sound impressions but only how you are addicted to it. For example the Amiga community is still drooling of having an Oids port.

Cheers
Sascha

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Shredder11 wrote:In the UK where I live the 8-bit titles were selling well and in good supply, and this did not start to drop until around 1989 when the ST and Amiga became affordable. The 8-bit era lasted much longer and was more successful than the 16-bit era I feel, about twice as long almost.


Thinking of that Atari 800 was released late 1979, it was a long lived computer. ;)

You can even see the same thing today where both Atari 8bit, C64 and ZX Spectrum seems to be more alive then both ST and Amiga.

(i'm not 100% sure, but it looks that way when surfing the net)

On the other hand, NES sold more units then SNES and was more long lived then it's 16 bit counterpart.

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:30 pm

christos wrote:no, actually most bad games are born from managers of big companies that do market research. If you'd like to learn a bit more on the subject take a look at extra credits on youtube.


Take a look at Nintendo for exemple.

Shigeru Miamoto designed both unique and very playable games that almost all other software houses copied. Every game was the result of a long time consuming work by Miamoto and his team. Games like Zelda III or Super Mario World for exemple started long before SNES was released.

Zelda 64 Ocarina of Time was the best scored game in history introducing many new features never seen before (as z targeting for exemple) that becomed standard in most games releaseded after Zelda 64. I have never ever seen a game that got so high scores in all the magazines. I especially remember the US gaming mag "Die Hard Gamefan". 3 month after the review Gamefan changed the score from 100% to 103% for the first time ever.

Zelda wasn't the result of a market research, it was the result of a game designer genius.

Same thing with Sonic II. Sonic team improved just about everything from the first game and made one of the best games ever made.

Today things are more about market research, that's why we often get the same things over and over again...

NHL 2019 anyone?

Zamuel_a
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Zamuel_a » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:39 pm

It's not so good to compare game on the ST to games that Nintendo made themself, like Mario and Zelda. They wanted to sell the machines so you have to compare it to then Atari made games for there consoles back in the 70ths. They made the best games then. The Atari ST was never meant to be a gaming computer so they didn't create games for it.

Many games for the NES were bad, but they never came to Europe so you don't know about them and many of the games that did come here weren't so good either.
ST / STFM / STE / Mega STE / Falcon / TT030 / Portfolio / 2600 / 7800 / Jaguar / 600xl / 130xe

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:09 pm

All the big japanese software companies made awesome games for NES. For exemple Square's Final Fantasy series, Enix Dragons Quest Series, Konami's Castlevania series, Capcoms Mega Man series, Tecmo's Ninja Gaiden series and many more. Nintendo was just one in the crowd making games for NES.

Many games that never reached Europe were games made especially for the japanese market, often a bit too japanese to be good for anyone outside Japan. Sometimes some of them reached Europe via import stores. Most of them weren't translated either.

Then pirate games from Taiwan, Hong Kong and similar was released without Nintendos promission. Many real bad games were simply pirate made and Nintendo had nothing to do with them.

User avatar
calimero
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am
Location: STara Pazova, Serbia
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby calimero » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:49 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote: Software houses like Enix, Square and Nintendo made some of the best rpg's ever

Well, maybe... NOT! :D

Thalion made BEST RPG ever! - AmberStar!

Later, I try to play that crapy fantasy RPG stuff on NES and it is :vomit:
I never understood that borring, unimaginative :), shallow japanes "rpgs"...
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

User avatar
nativ
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4106
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:26 am
Location: South West, UK

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby nativ » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:26 pm

I never understood that borring, unimaginative :), shallow japanes "rpgs"...[/quote]

I'd sooner play a text adventure! lol the STAC was quite nice
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:57 pm

calimero wrote:
Retrogamer_ST wrote: Software houses like Enix, Square and Nintendo made some of the best rpg's ever

Well, maybe... NOT! :D

Thalion made BEST RPG ever! - AmberStar!

Later, I try to play that crapy fantasy RPG stuff on NES and it is :vomit:
I never understood that borring, unimaginative :), shallow japanes "rpgs"...


That's your personal opinion.

The gaming world thought else. Final Fantasy, Dragons Quest, Zelda and other RPG's for NES sold in millions. Same thing on Gameboy, SNES and Playstation. On Megadrive it was Phantasy Star, Shining Force etc that was huge hits.

How much sold Amberstar? ;)

User avatar
calimero
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am
Location: STara Pazova, Serbia
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby calimero » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:43 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote:
calimero wrote:
Retrogamer_ST wrote: Software houses like Enix, Square and Nintendo made some of the best rpg's ever

Well, maybe... NOT! :D

Thalion made BEST RPG ever! - AmberStar!

Later, I try to play that crapy fantasy RPG stuff on NES and it is :vomit:
I never understood that borring, unimaginative :), shallow japanes "rpgs"...


That's your personal opinion.


ofcourse!

Retrogamer_ST wrote:The gaming world thought else. Final Fantasy, Dragons Quest, Zelda and other RPG's for NES sold in millions.


"gaming world" ... :)
...and PC computers are sold 10x more than ST in 80s but that does not make PC better computer than ST! ;)

Retrogamer_ST wrote:Same thing on Gameboy, SNES and Playstation. On Megadrive it was Phantasy Star, Shining Force etc that was huge hits.

How much sold Amberstar? ;)

I remember that I finished Shining Force on Sega - complete crap! (I just want to see complete game, to be sure that I am not miss something that make this game so "great" and so popular - it is crap; it is simplified and shallow compared to AmberStar - it is a game for everyone, easy to play... something like Farmville on FaceBook! Shining Force is same as Farmville compared to e.g. Civilization) :D
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:51 pm

@Calimero

To Quote Wikipedia

"However, as with most of Thalion's other releases, the public interest was somewhat limited."

"Disappointing sales of both Amberstar and Ambermoon lead Thalion Software to close after the sequel's German release."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amberstar

To name a RPG that WAS a success on ST. Dungeon Master from FTL was a huge success on ST and recived good reviews just about everywhere. It sold plenty of copies too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Ma ... eo_game%29

Perhaps you don't like the style of japanese rpg's, that's okey by me.

User avatar
calimero
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am
Location: STara Pazova, Serbia
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby calimero » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote:@Calimero

To Quote Wikipedia

"However, as with most of Thalion's other releases, the public interest was somewhat limited."

"Disappointing sales of both Amberstar and Ambermoon lead Thalion Software to close after the sequel's German release."

I do not deny that AmberStar wasn't popular! - but that fact does not tell anything about quality of game itself! Farmville play millions of gamers but that does not make it a good game. Same goes to Japanes "RPG" - they are easy and fun to play to average gamer but I am not satisfied with average! ;)

Retrogamer_ST wrote:Perhaps you don't like the style of japanese rpg's, that's okey by me.

I do not like Japanese RPG crap games and I am annoyed that you are taking these crap-games as something that ST lack of. Thank god that we do not have Shining Force on ST!
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:22 pm

@Calimero

Aaah, i get your point. It's all down to quality, right?

Then your quite happy that japanese RPG games wasn't released for ST. I can imagine that one of the best selling Japanese RPG's for NES sold as much as all games released for ST put together.

And in the end there wasn't much games left for ST who really needed one or two more "Dungeon Master" too keep it's head over the surface of kingdom come.

User avatar
calimero
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am
Location: STara Pazova, Serbia
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby calimero » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:21 pm

^
point: all Japanese RPGs are same with different graphics and different "story".

On Atari, programers tend to experiment and you have diversity! (good example is Dungeon Master - it was quite novel game) - for sure: not all RPGs are AAA class, but you have options to choose from; while on Sega/Nintendo you have only one type of RPGs (type that is well suited for average gamer; type that would sell for sure if there are cool cut-scenes and other eye-candy stuff that average gamer will recognise as "quality" game).

Cool cut-scenes would not harm ST RPGs :) but there is lot more than cut-scenes that make a good game!
btw I played a lot Thunderhawk since I was impressed with intro :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJLWUGlDYkc
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

User avatar
Retrogamer_ST
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1067
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:50 pm
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Much more could have been done on ST

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:41 pm

calimero wrote:^
point: all Japanese RPGs are same with different graphics and different "story".

On Atari, programers tend to experiment and you have diversity! (good example is Dungeon Master - it was quite novel game) - for sure: not all RPGs are AAA class, but you have options to choose from; while on Sega/Nintendo you have only one type of RPGs (type that is well suited for average gamer; type that would sell for sure if there are cool cut-scenes and other eye-candy stuff that average gamer will recognise as "quality" game).

Cool cut-scenes would not harm ST RPGs :) but there is lot more than cut-scenes that make a good game!
btw I played a lot Thunderhawk since I was impressed with intro :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJLWUGlDYkc


It's like quality music (that i like). Few people understand what such music is about because it demands quite much of the person who's listning. It's no mainstrem music and you don't make big money.

What Atari ST needed was more well made mainstream games that sold plenty of copies to stay alive. Else the platform will die off quickly.

Most RPG's for both NES and SNES was of high quality, not because they were real deep, but because they had a good storyline, good graphics and moody music. I don't think that anybody could say that Zelda III was crap for exemple, or Final Fantasy III. Awesome graphics, awesome music and a real good story.

The later Final Fantasy game for Playstation recived good scores in the magazines while Zelda 64 Ocarina of time got the bests score ever and won several awards for being revolutionary.

But if you don't like japanese rpg's nothing going to change that opinion. Personally i think that most of the japanese rpg's has been great games from Crono Trigger, Dragons Quest or Phantasy Star IV.

Most games for NES had small cut scenes to make them more involving for the player, even simple shoot'em ups. I would like that in more games for ST. :)


Social Media

     

Return to “Games - General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests