2005: happy twenty ST! Giga party for this date?

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2005: happy twenty ST! Giga party for this date?

Postby jace_stknights » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:22 pm

Yes anyone has thought about a BIG party to celebrate this birthday?

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Postby p01 » Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:38 pm

we need an STNICC

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Postby Frank » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:57 pm

Anyone know the exact date and time the ST turns 20? :)

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Postby alexh » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:31 pm

All I can find out is "Atari launched the 520ST to market in 3rd quarter of 1985."

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ST Birthday

Postby AEX » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:26 pm

Hi guys,

AEX celebrated the 15th Birthday (article still available at the site in the articles library), and we will be celebrating the 20th Anniversary in style on January the 5th 2005 - The first showing of the 520ST at the CES show in Las Vegas. The ST offically launched in September that same year (1985) - I'll get more exact dates when I dig them out.

Long live the ST!

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Postby Sarek » Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:49 pm

Might I help...

The date stamp on TOS 1.00 is as far as I can remember november 14, 1985. You'd better check that though. The ST can't have been released earlier than this can it? It can't really be much later if it was released in the last quarter of 1985 either. I was thinkin about gearing you all up for a convention in november last year, but it was too late to organise anything. 20th anniversary is much better celebration though.

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Postby unseenmenace » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:43 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the very first ST's have TOS on a floppy? In which case they may predate the normal ROM TOS 1.0
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Postby Nutking » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:49 am

Sarek wrote:Might I help...

The date stamp on TOS 1.00 is as far as I can remember november 14, 1985. You'd better check that though.


I think it is november 20, 1985 not sure, I have only STe. Tonight i'll pick up an old unwanted Atari, probably an ST. I'll check it! And if so, let you know.

cheers, de Nutking

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Postby thothy » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:08 am

unseenmenace wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the very first ST's have TOS on a floppy? In which case they may predate the normal ROM TOS 1.0


Yes, the first STs did not have a full TOS ROM, you had to use a boot floppy. But I think they also had some kind of ROM program - which simply loaded the boot sector from the floppy and run it. It would be nice to have a look at this ROM program (if it has a date etc.) - so does somebody still have a ST without TOS in the ROMs? Could he or she make a dump of that primitive ROM program?

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:27 am

The bootroms to boot a disk TOS had a size of about 16K or so, afaik 2 of the 6 ROM sockets were in use.
The bootrom afaik contained at least a routine to display a fancy "Insert TOS disk" prompt in GEM style on screen (according to my old 520 manual). It probably had a few XBIOS and BIOS calls builtin to load sectors from disk into memory.
But it would be really interesting to have a dump of such a bootroom around!
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Postby Sarek » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:56 pm

Sorry, november 20, 1985 it is. I was a week early. I've never heard of the boot disks though. I'd like to see more about that too.

But wouldn't it still have been called TOS? And if so might it have been the same TOS1.00 that was on the chips? I can't imagine it would have carried a lesser version number.

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Postby aktiv8 » Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:46 am

Im sure it was still called TOS - it was the operating system still afterall.

The disks are availbale for download on on of the Atari sites (forgive me but I can't recall whihc one right now) providing the site is still 'alive'. It was shipped with TOS on a disk because (if I remember correctly) the chips weren't ready, so they put out a disk based version instead.
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Postby ggn » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:03 am

Well, permit me to say that the date on TOS does not mean that the release date was the same as well. Most probably that date is the TOS build date. And since the first TOS was on a bootdisk the builds could change more easily.

So, I don't think that TOS' date equals the ST's release date.

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Postby thothy » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:31 am

aktiv8 wrote:The disks are availbale for download on on of the Atari sites (forgive me but I can't recall whihc one right now) providing the site is still 'alive'.


You can get such a TOS 1.00 boot disk here:
http://homepage.mac.com/carlhafner/AtariTOS.html

The RAM TOS on this disk seems to have the date 1985-05-29 :-)

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Postby aktiv8 » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:21 am

yep, that's the site I was thinking of thothy - thanks for posting the link for people :)

Thinking about this subject wasn't the "Disk TOS" know as 0.95 also? For some reason I have those numbers in my mind, but I'm sure I'm not getting it confused with previous discussions on the "1.9 TOS" etc in previous forum threads
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Postby Sarek » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:02 pm

We acknowledge that 20/11 as the date when the ST's chip based ROM was compiled. I personally find this to be the most significant date we have so far. A commercial release date seems quite distant from the ST coming into existence. Remember that the ST will have come out in different countries on different dates. Visualising some guy sat at a workbench and for the last time before mass production sending data to his PROM programmer and then taking that chip and plugging it into the empty DIL socket of the bare ST motherboard and powering up is to me more significant as a birthday than when the machine happened to appear on the shelves in one particular country.

If anybody can find a TOS compile date on a disk based rom which proceeds this, then we can deliberate over using it instead - but until then, can we be happy with 20/11 ?

[Sarek has a look himself]

I've tried to have a look myself, and it has been a rather depressing evening with one thing or another going wrong. It has been one long series of digressions nesting deeper and deeper, and my mind is all out of stack space. 2 hours I've been at it. 2 damn hours - and all I've got is the 'new folder' date stamp of 00-00-80.

Ahh well...

What this thread started out as was working out when to celebrate the ST's 20th birthday. We know for certain that it is some time this year, but if we are not careful, the year may pass us by while we wonder what date to take. This is another good reason why we should, until there is reason to change, fix a date that we know has some modest significance.

Also remember that if we intend to organise for ourselves a 20th birthday convention, then these things take time to prepare and organise, and if we do not fix a date soon then we risk having our celebration scheduled for an indefinite day that will never happen. It would be nice to hold a convention on the exact birthday, and for me, nothing would feel more appropriate than the weekend of the 19th and 20th November.

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Postby Nyh » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:29 am

simonsunnyboy wrote:The bootroms to boot a disk TOS had a size of about 16K or so, afaik 2 of the 6 ROM sockets were in use.
The bootrom afaik contained at least a routine to display a fancy "Insert TOS disk" prompt in GEM style on screen (according to my old 520 manual). It probably had a few XBIOS and BIOS calls builtin to load sectors from disk into memory.
But it would be really interesting to have a dump of such a bootroom around!


The resetscreen of the fnil demo shows you the effect of the TOS loader.

Nyh

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Postby Sarek » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:04 pm

TOS 0.99 was the version of disktos. 1.00 began the first chip based rom.

How do the hardware variants ST/STF/STM/STFM correlate with the rom versions from these early years?

0.99 - plain ST (No STF/STM/STFM with disktos???)
1.00 - No idea. Was the STFM this early on? Or just the ST/STF/STM?
1.02 - This is in my machine, an STFM from 1988. No idea whether the ST/STF/STM came with 102
1.04 - Presumably in 1989, the STFM was standard.
1.06 - The STE had 1.06 to begin with. Did any STFMs have it? What about the STFMs that were still being sold in 1993?

To clarify, put ticks '/' or crosses 'x' in the table below if such a machine existed or did not exist and was not a home built thing:


TOS ST STF STM STFM STE
0.99 /
1.00 x
1.02 / x
1.04 / x
1.06 /
1.62 /

Also, on many of the machines (like mine), the vent on the top is rectangular, while on some machines it was a scalene trapezium shape. How does the vent shape correlate with the different variants? In the help docs for WinSTon, the picture shows a machine with a trapezoidal vent. There is also a question of where the mouse connector was located. On some (like mine) it was underneath the numeric pad, while some (including the one in the Winston docs) has the connector on the right side of the machine.

Complete this table too:

For Vent: Write S for square vent, T for trapezoid vent, or S/T if it came in both variants
For mouse connector: U for under the numeric pad, R for right side or U/R if it came in both variants.

Feature ST STF STM STFM STE
Vent S
Mouse U

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Postby unseenmenace » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:41 pm

Oddly I've never seen an ST with a rectangular grill on top, only the diagonal one. As far as I know the narrower models with external floppy drives (ST,STM?) had the joystick ports on the right hand side opposite the cartridge port. I believe all STF's, STFM's and STE's have the joystick ports under the keyboard but I moved mine since this is a stupid place to put them!

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Last edited by unseenmenace on Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sarek » Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:25 pm

That's a nice bit of work with the D connectors. But... is that your knee down at the bottom of the picture there? That's risky business balancing your ST on your knee with both hands on your camera.

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Postby unseenmenace » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:47 pm

LOL well spotted, the ST is on its end on the floor with my knee stopping it from falling flat.
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Postby Zorro 2 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:44 am

You're not alone about "bizarre" stuffs on STF , loot at this french forum translated : YARONET.COM
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Postby unseenmenace » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:42 am

God, he made a pigs ear of that didn't he LOL
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Postby Mal7921 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:10 pm

Sarek wrote:TOS 0.99 was the version of disktos. 1.00 began the first chip based rom.

How do the hardware variants ST/STF/STM/STFM correlate with the rom versions from these early years?

0.99 - plain ST (No STF/STM/STFM with disktos???)
1.00 - No idea. Was the STFM this early on? Or just the ST/STF/STM?
1.02 - This is in my machine, an STFM from 1988. No idea whether the ST/STF/STM came with 102
1.04 - Presumably in 1989, the STFM was standard.
1.06 - The STE had 1.06 to begin with. Did any STFMs have it? What about the STFMs that were still being sold in 1993?



Right, there has been a little confusion over TOS versions, so here is some more info to either clear things up or muddy the mix :wink:

TOS 0.95 did exist and was the initial release code, as well as the version on show when the ST was demonstrated at shows. 0.99 was released just before the ROM version (1.00), and is in fact the same code(!).

1.00 was in all ST's up to 1988, that included later 260ST's, 520ST's, 1040STf and the STfm's. 1.02 was in the ST series up to mid 1989, when the TOS version was 1.04, giving ST owners many of the benifits of the 1.06 and 1.062 ROMS of the STe, but without support for the extra hardware (And no medium res boot bug!).

The first showing of a Rom based TOS was during a demo of the up and coming 260STfm (Which was going to be called the 260STd(!)). While this machine looked similar to the STfm's we laa know and love today, there were marked differences, namely the floppy frive being on the left of the case, rather than the right (Apologies to all who already know that bit).

The only other varients of the ST TOS, were derived from TOS 2.06, namely the ST Book version, with inbuilt ROM disk, and 2.07 used on the Sparrow and FX-1 machines (Falcon prototypes).[/i]
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