The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

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Los FPGA, emulators and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Poll ended at Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:00 pm

NO. A forum that assumes Atari theme should not have the first 5 messages (the presentation) with this.
20
47%
YES.
23
53%
 
Total votes: 43

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:03 pm

wongck wrote:Why do that, they can always go create their own FB group.
Or create their own Forum. I see lots of people leaving here and doing that as well.

And I feel that they should.



Hard words, mate, very hard: invite people who love Atari to leave.

Your proposal is a sad reality, of course there are people who have left here and created their own forum, and with it other people who contribute a lot to the Atari scene, not cores from other platforms.
Regarding Facebook groups: all are listed in a thread, it is voluntary to join them and does not mean the obligation to leave this forum.

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:05 pm

LOL so you now feel that it is OK to talk about bicycles and PMD in a car forum.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:08 pm

Atarieterno wrote:Hard words, mate, very hard: invite people who love Atari to leave.


Divided love.... your MISTER is running also Amiga, C64, SNES, MAME and so on....
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:22 pm

wongck wrote:
Atarieterno wrote:Hard words, mate, very hard: invite people who love Atari to leave.


Divided love.... your MISTER is running also Amiga, C64, SNES, MAME and so on....


Conclusion: they are not Atari users.

We will all learn how the current situation is and what Atari users survive and what "multi-retro-users" we have. And therefore: what sector is the one that is giving content to this forum.

My wife, who is not suspected of being a fan of Atari (except to play the game "Herman") tells me: "In the 80's you have obtained the title of music teacher and you only had as a tool the 520 ST and a box of diskettes, now that you have 20 Atari machines and many add-ons: why do you waste your time arguing with people? "
Maybe he's right, but I'll wait a month.

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:25 pm

wongck wrote:LOL so you now feel that it is OK to talk about bicycles and PMD in a car forum.


Where are the "bicycles"?

A Facebook group Mega STe is ATARI.

A TT group is ATARI.

A ST and STe musicians network group is ATARI.

I only see "cars", mate.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby shoggoth » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:48 pm

Personally I'd like non-Atari stuff to go away. The FPGA stuff is mainly about anything but Atari. It ends up here because of the MiST - which is only an ST if running an ST core. It also seems to bring the village idiot(s) around, who seem to make a point of posting posts about navel fluff etc.

At the very least, I'd like it to go away from the "recent topics"-feed.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby npomarede » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Hi
My feeling about this is that this top section on main page is aptly named "recent topics", so filtering FPGA or other "unrelated" topics is not a solution. This top section is just about recent topic, it doesn't mean "most important topics"

And even if this was done, who would define an "unrelated topic" ? Are Atari FPGA completely unrelated ? are emulators completely unrelated ? Do only topics discussing about usage on real HW deserve to be in this top section ?

As an example, if a topic starts with playing a particular game on ST, that's fine it would be in this top section. But what if later in the same topic people reports that this game doesn't work correctly under an emulator or under an FPGA clone, does this topic still deserve to be on the top section ? How do you handle this ?

That's real questions and I think deciding exactly what would be in this top section would create more harm than good, because it's obvious that in the end people will have different opinions and will want their own unique "top section", which is not possible with this php forum. Then people will leave, telling they weren't listen to, which would be sad.

In summary, I don't think a vote is needed because there's already a de facto vote by the users : they participate to some topics they like and those topics naturally get referenced in the "recent topics" section. If other people decide to talk about musics on ST for example, then it will appear in the "recent topic" sections.
So, as was pointed above, the problem is not that some people discuss about some "unrelated" topics to you, the problem is that no other people are discussing about what you would consider "real ST" topics.
It might be sad, but if no one feels like creating topics about those "real ST" topics, then it will stay this way.

Hiding "unrelated" topics in the top section if no one write recent "real ST" topics will be worst because each time you come in AF you will see that the top section is like dead : "recent" topics' date will become older and older as no one write new "real ST" topics.
And if people wrote "real ST" topics regularly, then problem would solve itself, it's all simple as that (IMHO :) )

Personally, I like AF the way it is, because it discusses many topics about Atari in many different fields (there might be a few discussions about such or such fpga core , but honestly not that much and it's easy to skip them).

Nicolas

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:00 pm

npomarede wrote:
Nicolas



Conclusion: you value quantity more than quality. And you "forget" the Amiga core ... that's also debatable whether it's Atari or not Atari?
I do not understand you, and I do not say it for the language.

P.S. A single Atari theme per week is more authentic that 10 daily posts from MiSTer with Amiga core, but endophobia reigns ...
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby npomarede » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:09 pm

Atarieterno wrote:
npomarede wrote:
Nicolas



Conclusion: you value quantity more than quality.

Not my conclusion : I value discussions and openess in the kind of discussions, not forcing people what they should see when they log to AF. Who decide of the quality of discussion ? How do you rate the quality of a discussion, with a note ? Who give this note ?
Sorry, I'm playing pedantic, but that's real questions. Just saying "quality" and "quantity" doesn't solve anything, because it's just your opinion (which I respect), not necessarily everyone's opinion.

And you "forget" the Amiga core ... that's also debatable whether it's Atari or not Atari?
I do not understand you, and I do not say it for the language.

P.S. A single Atari theme per week is more authentic that 10 daily posts from MiSTer with Amiga core, but endophobia reigns ...

I didn't forget about amiga core, I just wrote in my previous post about skipping such or such fpga core discussions if you like. Strictly speaking, Amiga core is not Atari, but they do share the same cpu, so it's not always as unrelated as it might seem, as improvement in cpu core will also benefit to atari core.

Nicolas

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby joska » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:45 pm

wongck wrote:Other than anti social jerks who wants to have the power to select their own members; there is no real reason.


That is one reason. Another reason is people that wants to revive their childhood memories and fire up their Ataris again. Many of these has never used the internet before "social media" and does not know how much Facebook sucks.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby calimero » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:55 pm

1024MAK wrote:Now, I don't know if it is possible, but maybe it is something that maybe the developers of the phpBB software can look at introducing in the future. What am I on about? My idea is to have multiple 'Active topics" pages.


This is the answer! :) (in part)

It should not be hard to make this multiple 'Active topics' sections. Even if phpBB does not support it it would be easy to multiple Active topic box and then save in cookie for every user preference - which box to be open by default :)
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby joska » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:35 pm

Wouldn't it be better if the individual user could select which forums to include in the Active topics feed?
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby sporniket » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:42 pm

I can understand the feelings that motivate the posting, and as long as such subjects are posted in the appropriate sub-forum OR in the Chat subforum, they are entitled to go to the "recent topic" at the top of the homepage.

Otherwise, someday we ought to have a poll entitled "The Chat [fr] deserve the cover of this forum?" when this subforum will have such a spike of activity ?

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:48 pm

sporniket wrote:Otherwise, someday we ought to have a poll entitled "The Chat [fr] deserve the cover of this forum?" when this subforum will have such a spike of activity ?


I think that the subforums "Chat" (Eng. And Fr.) can no longer occupy the 5 topics of presentation of Atari-forum, and it has not been a question of polling and voting, only of logic and coherence.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Simongordon » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:58 pm

I’m going tom go further, I’m interested in Atari, non Atari, raspberry pi, and fpga. I’m actuall quite annoyed that sometimes the only or best information on MiST and MiSTer is ONLY on the Atari forum. The recent discussions and announcements on the death of MIST were ONLY on the Atari forum amd when thy came up on the mist/mister Facebook group people kept pointing me to this Atari forum for “the announcement”...so bottom line yes this forum is being abused...

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby npomarede » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:06 pm

From what I understand, some people think the recent topics should be filtered to keep only meaningful topics (assuming we can define what is really meaningful for everyone).

But in that case, maybe the solution would be to keep the recent topics as it is now and create a new section "editors' pick" (or whatever you like) that would be (maybe) hand-edited to keep only a selection of "hot" / "interesting" / "real ST" topics.
This would satisfy both needs :
- "recent topics" is useful, because you really see all the activity, so you can decide to participate to an ongoing discussion that you would not have seen (eg because it's in a sub section that you don't read usually)
- "editor's topics" would be some kind of ST only topics.

This requires 2 things :
- add a new "top section" (maybe php forum only allows 1 "recent topic" sections ? I don't know, would need to look at the forum's code)
- have a group of dedicated users that would regularly watch all the topics and tag everything that is strictly ST (this needs to be defined) to appear in this "editor's topic".

Whether this is technically and humanely possible, I don't know :)

Nicolas

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Total Eclipse » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:44 pm

I'm one of those annoying MiST users, and I do like to read the FPGA discussions. I have, predictability I suppose, voted in favour of keeping the FPGA discussions visible.

To be fair, I don't really pay that much attention to
the recent discussions page, and when I go to the forum I usually go straight to the "new posts" list.

I'm perfectly capable of scrolling past topics that don't interest me, so don't really see what the big deal is?
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby calimero » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:27 pm

joska wrote:Wouldn't it be better if the individual user could select which forums to include in the Active topics feed?

Yes.
I was talking about this :) but my english is archaic so it was not clear from my writing ;)
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Dal » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:25 pm

I can see the argument here. For those who may not know the full history, when MiST was first developed, it was purely designed with the intention of being an Atari ST implemented in FPGA. So it naturally found its home here on AF under the 'clones' section. Of course, more and more cores were developed but this forum had become the home to the MiST, and this is where owners come for info. Actually, I believe some people who bought the MiST to run other cores will have found an interest in the ST purely because of the content on this forum (so it's not all bad).

Things have become a little more tenuous since the Mister. It kind of made sense to have the Mister forum content in the same place as the MiST as it is the new iteration of the hardware. But as of yet, there has been no porting of the ST core to Mister so it leaves a lot of people wondering where is the justification for having this content on an Atari forum.

I'm thinking that preventing the MiST(er) threads from appearing in the Recent Posts section would help here, so I'm just going to go ahead and do that. I do like the suggestion of allowing members to have their own personalised filter in the Active Posts page - if there's a mod that allows this, then I'll implement it.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby mfro » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:27 am

Thanks Dal.

If you do not find a suitable mod: what you can always do is to create special user groups with limited access rights to certain forums and let the users decide what their primary group should be (they then just lose access to the 'unwanted' forums). Not as flexible as one might wish, but I have done that successfully in another phpbb based forum. Works fine if you limit yourself to only a small number of configurations (like a 'no MiSTer' group).

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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby wongck » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:44 am

Dal wrote:I'm thinking that preventing the MiST(er) threads from appearing in the Recent Posts section would help here, so I'm just going to go ahead and do that.

:thumbs:
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby wongck » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 am

Atarieterno wrote:
wongck wrote:LOL so you now feel that it is OK to talk about bicycles and PMD in a car forum.


Where are the "bicycles"?

A Facebook group Mega STe is ATARI.
A TT group is ATARI.
A ST and STe musicians network group is ATARI.
I only see "cars", mate.



think u misunderstood what i mean by bicycle and PMD but never mind now that some action performed by the forum admin.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:57 am

wongck wrote:
think u misunderstood what i mean by bicycle and PMD but never mind now that some action performed by the forum admin.


I applaud the action taken by the administrator, thanks to Dal.
To you, Wongck, I do not really understand you: you vote "Yes" but you like the decision of the administrator?
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby wongck » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:00 pm

Atarieterno wrote:To you, Wongck, I do not really understand you: you vote "Yes" but you like the decision of the administrator?

A journey begins with a step in the right direction.
But to kill free speech is not the way to do it. It kills the community if you put free speech down. And no fake news as well.
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Re: The FPGA and non-Atari cores deserve the cover of this forum?

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm

wongck wrote:
Atarieterno wrote:To you, Wongck, I do not really understand you: you vote "Yes" but you like the decision of the administrator?

A journey begins with a step in the right direction.
To kill free speech is not the way to do it. It kills the community if you put free speech down. And no fake news as well.


What free speech, yours or mine?

Fake news... Well, for that you are the one who balances it, since you are the truth personified.

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