exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby qq1975b » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:56 am

Wow...crazy news. I hope you'll find a way to fix the misunderstanding and be able to use your paypal account again. And if not...bank transfers. You are a very reliable guy so I think it won't be a problem for anyone here because in EU (not for non EU countries) it is fee-less (at least until the day the Brexit is really activated :S).
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby Atari74user » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:58 am

EmpireAndrew wrote:PayPal isn't the problem, the anger should go to the wan@@@ who maliciously lied to them.
Bet they keep quiet too.
Coward.


I understand your point, but I would argue PayPal are not adopting a common sense approach, and arguably are sticking to preordained scripts to deal with a problem. They are failing to deal with issue and provide adequate answers.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby troed » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:09 am

Kubik wrote:
troed wrote:Within Europe SEPA (IBAN) is reasonably quick and fee-less.

Correction - within eurozone!
When I transfer money from our German account to my wife's Slovak account (within eurozone), it's done overnight and doesn't cost anything. When I do the same to my Czech account (EU, but no eurozone), it takes three days at least, and I pay certain amount off the Czech account as some sort of incoming fee. The fee differs from bank to bank, from approx. 1 EUR up to 8 EUR. British banks might be different, but still, don't expect to be as easy as eurozone-to-eurozone transfer.


It's not connected to the eurozone. I'm in Sweden (no euro) and I made a SEPA transfer to Chris as a test (UK, no euro) and it was still one day and no fee.

I actually believe your Czech bank is in violation of the SEPA requirement. I have vague memories of my previous Swedish bank being so (took three days for transfers) and I just pointed them to the relevant documents and they then made a change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

SEPA consists of 34 countries:[2]

The 28 member states of the European Union, including
the 19 states that are in the Eurozone:
Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain
the nine states that are not in the Eurozone:
Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden, United Kingdom.
The three states having signed the European Economic Area agreement:
Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway.
A few other countries with agreements with the EU:
Monaco, San Marino, Switzerland.


/Troed

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby qq1975b » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:14 am

Good to know! So more than EU (no Brexit problems here :lol: )
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby farvardin » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:22 am

that's crazy! People at Paypal are stupid, or probably paypal are keeping pressure on them. And cancelling your Mum's account as well looks like Paypal wouldn't mind going toward a Brave New world or 1984 kind of society. It's the problem when the power is in the hands of only a few, they do what they want as long as there isn't any counter-power. In addition to IBAN, you could also consider accepting Bitcoin?
Good luck anyway.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:41 am

Atari74user wrote:
EmpireAndrew wrote:PayPal isn't the problem, the anger should go to the wan@@@ who maliciously lied to them.
Bet they keep quiet too.
Coward.


I understand your point, but I would argue PayPal are not adopting a common sense approach, and arguably are sticking to preordained scripts to deal with a problem. They are failing to deal with issue and provide adequate answers.


I agree.
They need to look carefully at any complaint although it maybe be tricky for someone non technical to know what they're looking at.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby wongck » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:16 pm

Paypal charges absurd exchange rates !!
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby spiny » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:42 pm

ebay and paypal are clowns. It's impossible to get any sense out of them. Presumably they've just seen the keyword 'ROM' in TOS ROMs and assumed it;'s for chipping consoles or something.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby umberto1st » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:31 pm

Hope your Mom isn't ticked at you Chris. Anyways, ok everybody from now on when ordering a v2.2 booster mod, just say I would like a strawberry shortcake and if you want the fast tos just say with whipped cream please. I am pretty sure the PayPolice wont ban you for selling strawberries. Well then they could think your selling genetically modded berries. Oh man now they will be banning me for writing this..
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:42 pm

Yes they must use something like robots, whom are checking keywords.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:48 pm

Pretty sad to read this, especially when PayPal worked well for me - but I don't have WEBshop. However, I'm not sure that PayPal is main culprit here. They are under control for sure from some higher institution, so they just made what is simplest and most safe for them. And as it goes in some forums too, issue is very specific and there is simply no people with enough knowledge about subject in legal circles to judge about.
Probably they have bad experience in similar disputes, and did chose simplest way - ignorance. Myself started couple months ago dispute against employer because they blatantly broke some safety rules at work, but it appeared that nobody cares about it, so lawyer recommended to me to suit them only because formally incorrect firing off me (sorry, can not say it better) - I could get some little money, but that would took min 4-5 trials, so I abandoned whole thing, and bastard chief still does same poo with new workers (all we 5 people aren't anymore on that job). Sorry for being off-topic, but this is our World today.
Considering said that "Paypal charges absurd exchange rates" - they are little higher, but much less than what banks here usually charge.
Then, IBAN charges may be much higher than PayPal transfer charges, what is by me main reason why PayPal became so popular.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby EmpireAndrew » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:35 pm

<rant>
The problem is the DMCA act.
Another piece of draconian legislation designed to protect big business at the expense of the masses.

https://www.wired.com/2011/04/sony-settles-ps3-lawsuit/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_Megaupload

Paypal doesn't want to run afoul of it and exxos is probably a simple victim of that fear.

Any company that tries heavy handed tactics in the name of copyright deserves to have their stuff spread far and wide.

Nintendo are going after Youtubers who post vidoes of them playing the Nintendo games *they bought*. It's ridiculous.

Even DVD and Bluray decryption keys can be considered copyrighted. Yes, you can copyright a number! Insanity.

I've even seen companies go after people who offer downloads of old no longer offered for sale games, claiming economic loss. If you're not selling it how are you suffering economic loss?

The whole, copyright ensures creation is total B.S. Someone writes a successful album and expects to live off it the rest of their life? Other working people don't. If I made the laws copyright would last 5 years, after that it's fair game to anyone. Want to keep making money? Keep creating new stuff.

Software should be free.
You pay for support or if you want to encourage further releases.
Or go open source and work on the thing yourself.
</rant>
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby exxos » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:57 pm

Been talking to a company who seem happy to sell my stuff, but while I do run my own personal business, I actually do not have a business account ( never really needed one) which seems to be needed to take credit card payments.

If I go down that route its going to cause complications with my personal tax forms also, to the point where the atari sales would all be subject to likely 20% tax, which is more than I make on kits. To the point it would actually be more profitable not to sell anything :roll: Not only that, the huge sum of paperwork it would entail to document every capacitor, resistor, PCB I buy would turn it into a full time job in its own right. So I really do not see any solution to this. I'm stuck between "a rock and a hard place".

As people suggested, yes I could take IBAN payments, but while there have been millions of transactions on my account, buying from ebay, farnell or whatever, they mostly outgoings. I pretty much never used my bank account for 'income'. As I said many times before, any money "made" goes into other developments, so I dont actually make any money to put into my bank account. Though the problem is, if my bank starts to ask questions as to why all of a sudden I've got loads of international payments going into my account, they could think im running some scam then id end up with problems with the bank as I can't really prove or give reason to the payments. Its all turned into one huge unsolvable mess :(
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby English Invader » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:22 pm

Someone suggested Bitcoin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

Another option would be to look for some kind of independent regulatory authority that would make PayPal more accountable for their use of the ban hammer. Certainly some kind of discrimination suit might be possible - anything that facilitates piracy would be hard to defend but modded hardware and homebrew seem defensible.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby catmando » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:38 pm

exxos wrote:Thanks for everyones kind words and support, it means a lot to me!

In reply to some peoples questions, I got banned on a "DSP ASP32 PSU REPAIR KIT". I suspected DSP was a drug, like LSD, It was, so I thought that was the reason. Basically because the DSP kits only started selling more recently. Though when I bugged paypal, they pointed to my site which was selling "mod kits". It wasn't even my store page but my main index page on my site. Where I had a phrase like "click here to view all my hardware mods". So they assume I'm hacking playstations and that kinda thing. I've tried to explain Atari went out of business 20 years ago, tried to explain DVD encrypted games didn't exist in the 1980s... They just don't care.


Maybe you need to change the phrasing on your site to something like 'upgrade kits' or 'atari spares'. Anything that separates you clearly away from the mod kits for consoles etc. As I think someone else mentioned what you do is really no different than a PC shop that sells PSU's, graphic cards, memory modules etc.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby vizfizz » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:56 pm

What about the possibility of finding a dealer for your product. Like Best Electronics here in CA? An established business with appropriate credentials would resolve your problems. Of course this introduces a "middleman" but I personally would be willing to endure a markup on product prices to ensure more hardware options for the ST and Falcon are available.

I have some experience in doing this. I use to sell software plugins for a pair of programmers who wrote tools for an older 3D animation program. I created a business, made a website, did promotion, sold and distributed the product electronically, paid sales taxes, reported transactions to the government and so forth. Every month I cut a check to these programmers based off total sales.

A dealer like Best Electronics would do the same....but in this case, Best just purchases your product outright, applies their markup, and sells directly to the consumer.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby exxos » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:14 pm

vizfizz wrote:What about the possibility of finding a dealer for your product. Like Best Electronics here in CA?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had that idea many year ago selling PeST.. He offered a max of £2 per "PeST".. We couldn't even make them for that.. Plus the guy sounds like hes struggling to keep up with orders anyway.

Personally I would love a overseas agent.. but I doubt any ones got the capital to start up such a venture.

catmando wrote:Maybe you need to change the phrasing on your site to something like 'upgrade kits' or 'atari spares'. Anything that separates you clearly away from the mod kits for consoles etc. As I think someone else mentioned what you do is really no different than a PC shop that sells PSU's, graphic cards, memory modules etc.


Yes, I have started changing my site, also as I list like "ATARI STFM UPGRADE......." It could be taken as I am selling under the Atari name, not selling a item to fit a Atari... AFAIK Epic games owned the trademark name Atari.. So I have to make sure I'm not selling under the Atari name.. I'm not, but idiots like paypal can read it that way.

I am working on all this.. have been all day (tired as hell!) , been on the phone to the tax office just, because im already registered I can basically register for a proper business account with the bank, and that would open the door to to my accepting credit card payments...
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby fidzen » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:27 pm

This is really sad news, I have said before that you are very important to the survival of the Atari scene.
What you do is incredible and make the Atari scene alive. I personally feel that your work is very
important for the survival and evolution of the Atari scene and I'm willing to help you.
I'm thinking of maybe creating a webshop for your stuff in Sweden.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby vizfizz » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:45 pm

Well since most of your business is out of Europe, probably the best idea would be having you (the manufacturer) fulfill and ship orders to buyers while your "agent" promotes and handles financial transactions. That way, you create a deal that better benefits your financial model rather than the 3rd party vendor. Essentially the "agent" collects his fee off the sales and promotion of your product, but never once actually "ships" a tangible device. You're effectively paying your agent to do all the leg work of creating installation videos, marketing, and other fanfare to get people excited about your product.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby mlynn1974 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:53 pm

When PayPal goes wrong it's an absolute pain. I hope you find a way to reopen your store because it's so important for the whole community. I will need a new PSU soon.

I know it's rather old fashioned, and banks don't like it, but you can't go wrong with Personal Cheques (or Checks for our American friends).

It is fairly easy to integrate WorldPay (formerly RBS WorldPay) or Sage Pay (formerly Protx) on web sites, but I don't know how much they charge to use their service these days. Protx used to be free up-to 40 transactions per month, but I think it's something ridiculous like £20 per month now.
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby exxos » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:57 pm

I hope to re-open in the near future, just so many problems to sort out... im falling victim to "Transactions per month" and charges per month.. so trying to keep those costs to a minimum and keeping the "companies involved" to a minimum.

Bank holiday weekend, so can't do anything until tuesday now.. got van repairs to do next week, so likely won't be around much overall next week.. but I'm trying hard not to give up.. im exhausted..... time for sleep....
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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby troed » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:58 pm

mlynn1974 wrote:but you can't go wrong with Personal Cheques


lol wut

I'm 42 and I've never ever written a cheque. I believe I heard my parents mentioning them when I was very young ... ;)

(But I'll happily pay using Bitcoin)

/Troed

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby English Invader » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:50 pm

mlynn1974 wrote:I know it's rather old fashioned, and banks don't like it, but you can't go wrong with Personal Cheques.


Or Postal Orders. Paid in advance on a cash only basis at the Post Office and guaranteed to be cashable at the other end. I honestly can't think of a more secure means of payment for both the buyer and the seller.

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby Nick Harllow » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:49 am

Really bad news ...

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Re: exxos's webshop forcefully shutdown :(

Postby Ektus » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:52 pm

Would it be feasible to use Amazon instead? I've bought items there from private sellers that had only a couple one-time offers. I don't know the fees, though.
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