GEMBENCH 6

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby nativ » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:20 pm

have you tried running gembench on an atari running EMU TOS ? does that work?

as Chris says the supporting hardware will not be there running it on an amiga running EmuTOS to report much.. I am not sure how complete EMUtos on amiga actually is..
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby exxos » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:52 am

I think I tried real hardware with EMUTOS a few months back and it worked, but some tests were a lot slower than normal TOS. Also IIRC the grow and shrink boxes didn't work.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby BlankVector » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:06 pm

nativ wrote:have you tried running gembench on an atari running EMU TOS ? does that work?

Yes, it works fine.

nativ wrote:as Chris says the supporting hardware will not be there running it on an amiga running EmuTOS to report much..

GemBench only tests GEM and CPU, so I don't see what could prevent it to run on EmuTOS for non-Atari hardware. Anyway, as GemBench only targets Atari hardware, I will not insist. There are other good benchmarks.

nativ wrote:I am not sure how complete EMUtos on amiga actually is..

It is the same as EmuTOS for Atari, with minor differences. See my previous post.

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby exxos » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:08 pm

BlankVector wrote:
GemBench only tests GEM and CPU, so I don't see what could prevent it to run on EmuTOS for non-Atari hardware. Anyway, as GemBench only targets Atari hardware, I will not insist. There are other good benchmarks.


It likely fails as the assembly code turns off interrupts for the keyboard, floppy polling etc. GB4 might work better if thats the case.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby BlankVector » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:42 pm

exxos wrote:It likely fails as the assembly code turns off interrupts for the keyboard, floppy polling etc.

This is a good reason. Turning interrupts off using a simple "move.w #$2700,sr" also works on Amiga. But selectively turning interrupts off by setting MFP registers can't work on non-Atari hardware. This is where TOS hardware abstraction abilities show their limit.

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby nativ » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:20 pm

This is where TOS hardware abstraction abilities show their limit.
only on non TOS machines? I guess

why not contact the EMUTOS amiga dev team and query it with them.. or the GEMbench author and see if he can produce a limited version for you to test with... failing that.. write your own EMU TOS compliant testing software/benchmark :)
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby BlankVector » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:03 pm

nativ wrote:why not contact the EMUTOS amiga dev team and query it with them.. or the GEMbench author and see if he can produce a limited version for you to test with...

Well, I'm the whole EmuTOS for Amiga team. And exxos is the GEMBench 6 author. All is done.

nativ wrote:failing that.. write your own EMU TOS compliant testing software/benchmark :)

QINDEX22 is good enough.

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby exxos » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:26 pm

Started doing some more work on GB6, mostly adding a screenshot routine in, still going to take some time to finish up. But a few small tweaks here and there, all is explained in the readme file each release. Its becoming hard to find time to work on it lately, still lots I want to add in though.

It seems troed was asking about the FPU tests not working on the MSTE. Basically its not programmed as it needs custom code to run in IO MAPPED MODE. Similar with the STFM's which have a FPU, could only compare it to the MSTE. The falcon uses the FPU differently and uses different coding again. So you couldn't actually compare a STFM FPU to a Falcon FPU, even though they might both be a 68882 FPU.

I added the FPU test into GB6 mostly to benchmark the Falcon's FPU before and after overclocking, but I think d.m.l wrote a much better testing app for that which tests various instructions and lists the speed.

So I am really wondering if the FPU test in GB6 should just be taken out and some other more useful test put there instead. No idea what other test could be added though its just a thought really as the FPU test can't be done on most machines (other than the falcon) anyway.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby troed » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:39 pm

exxos wrote:No idea what other test could be added though its just a thought really as the FPU test can't be done on most machines (other than the falcon) anyway.


More than a few Mega STs have the Atari-supplied FPU expansion board - and since the Mega STE has an FPU socket I can't really be the only one to have populated it ;) In that aspect there's no difference between MSTE and Falcon.

But in any case detection should be made to separate memory mapped FPU from instruction based.

/Troed

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby DarkLord » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:18 am

exxos wrote:

So I am really wondering if the FPU test in GB6 should just be taken out and some other more useful test put there instead. No idea what other test could be added though its just a thought really as the FPU test can't be done on most machines (other than the falcon) anyway.


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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:50 am

OK, so put it another way then, what do you guys use the FPU for ?
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 BUILD 24

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:40 pm

GB6 BUILD 24

See bottom of page for downloads.
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I've uploaded GB4 registered as that could be "lost" as its "somewhere" on the forum. Now its on the page so easy to find.

BUILD 24 UPDATES
Some tests have some alt-ram benchmarks added. These are not tested as I don't have time at the moment to benchmark alt-ram. Likely the files will need tweaking at some point. In anycase, if anyone has a alt-ram board (assume monster) on a stock STE/STFM then please benchmark and send me the file.

Finally added a screenshot function. This will only export PI2 images when in medium res.

A few bug fixes and tweaks, though read the readme file for whats changed.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby Atari030 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:17 pm

exxos wrote:OK, so put it another way then, what do you guys use the FPU for ?


Filling empty sockets on motherboards. :D The CT2 does my OCD in.

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Re: GEMBENCH 6 (almost)

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:33 pm

Atari030 wrote:
exxos wrote:OK, so put it another way then, what do you guys use the FPU for ?


Filling empty sockets on motherboards. :D The CT2 does my OCD in.


Yeah, pretty much it , empty socket, must fill it OCD :lol:
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby DarkLord » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:37 am

Chris, if the point you're trying to make is that the FPU on an ST sees very
limited use (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say very little software
actually takes advantage of it?), then I would have to agree.

Honestly, I can only think of a few titles, right off hand...

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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:23 pm

I'd like to see FPU tests for my TT so that I could compare it before and after overclock...
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby exxos » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:47 pm

EmpireAndrew wrote:I'd like to see FPU tests for my TT so that I could compare it before and after overclock...


As long as its not IO MAPPED FPU, you can save stock benchmarks, then overclock and try again, that function has been in GB6 for a while now. Same with the falcon, though I did do a benchmark file for that already. I'm not sure anyones submitted a TT benchmark yet.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:30 pm

I only have an old GemBench from a cover disk I think as I didn't realise you had the source and had updated it.
I'll run your improved version.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby Ektus » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:00 pm

GemBench 6 build 24 works okay on my CT2A Falcon. Operating System is MagiC 6.20. The GemBench window is fixed in the middle of the screen. It doesn't like multitasking, won't come to the front again once hidden by other windows.

It fails to start on my CT63+CTPCI Falcon. Error message: "Arithmetic overflow at line 514 in file E:\GB6\GUI24.BAS". That's on the graphics card in 1920x1200@16M colours.
On that machine, GemBench 4.03 throws an Exception #2 immediately after start.

In the following bench results, the "REFERENCE" and "SYSTEMS" columns appear switched.

Code: Select all

GEMBENCH 606 Build 24
======================================
     REFERENCE            SYSTEM     
======================================
TOS 4.00  AES 3.99  TOS 2.06  AES 3.20
BLiTTER Disabled    BLiTTER Enabled   
RES 1088*736*256    RES 640*200*4     
GEMDOS v0.20        GEMDOS v0.20     
Falcon 68030        STE 68000         
LineF FPU inst.     FPU Not present   
NVDI 5.03 present   NVDI not present 
CACHE D=ON  I=ON    CACHE D=OFF  I=OFF
Ran from ST-RAM     Ran from ST-RAM   
======================================
GEM Dialog Box:            7.340  179%
VDI Text:                  1.010 1448%
VDI Text Effects:          1.240 1738%
VDI Small Text:            2.580  876%
VDI Graphics:              5.140  542%
GEM Window:               12.235   81%
Integer Division:          1.820 1728%
Float Math:                2.350    0%
RAM Access:               23.300  155%
ROM Access:               11.540  646%
Blitting:                  9.675   37%
VDI Scroll:                7.655  125%
Justified Text:            3.825  303%
VDI Enquire:               6.955  297%
ALT-RAM:                  10.745  676%
======================================
Graphics:                         572%
CPU:                              843%
Average:                          630%


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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby exxos » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:24 pm

Ektus wrote:GemBench 6 build 24 works okay on my CT2A Falcon. Operating System is MagiC 6.20. The GemBench window is fixed in the middle of the screen. It doesn't like multitasking, won't come to the front again once hidden by other windows.


GB6 doesn't support multitasking environments, someone else mentioned it, think it's in the readme somewhere. I had a tough time getting my head around basic AES stuff, I think its mostly down to the screen redraw functions. I basically don't do it. Was something like had to define parts of the window to refresh which were under another window.. or something odd. I did wonder about just refreshing the whole window, but it could flicker like mad all the time, I don't run a multitasking OS. Nothing I've ever been interested in. It may get fixed one day, but its not high up on my to do list.

Ektus wrote: It fails to start on my CT63+CTPCI Falcon. Error message: "Arithmetic overflow at line 514 in file E:\GB6\GUI24.BAS". That's on the graphics card in 1920x1200@16M colours.


Looks like the number of planes hits a overflow, sounds logic with 16M colours. Should be a easy fix.

Ektus wrote:On that machine, GemBench 4.03 throws an Exception #2 immediately after start.


Not surprised, GB4 was written when the ST/E machines were around.

Ektus wrote:In the following bench results, the "REFERENCE" and "SYSTEMS" columns appear switched.


Thanks I will look into that tomorrow.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby exxos » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:02 am

Your right the reference and system text is backwards, will fix that.

I think 16million colours doesn't have a bit plane number ? Can't really remember though I think "true colour" doesn't use planes ? So assume it came back as a stupid huge number and caused the error your saw.

16 million colours is 16,777,216 with 24 bit planes, I use a long integer which can go to 2,147,483,648 so not sure why it would overflow :roll:

32bit planes would give 4,294,967,296 so can only assume your graphics is running 32bit planes causing the variable to overflow.
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby Cyprian » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:57 am

exxos wrote:I think 16million colours doesn't have a bit plane number ? Can't really remember though I think "true colour" doesn't use planes ? So assume it came back as a stupid huge number and caused the error your saw.

bitplanes are used only in 1-8 bit color mode. 15bit - 32bit modes use chunky pixel (two/three/four consecutive bytes define pixel color).
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby exxos » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:18 pm

Cyprian wrote:
exxos wrote:I think 16million colours doesn't have a bit plane number ? Can't really remember though I think "true colour" doesn't use planes ? So assume it came back as a stupid huge number and caused the error your saw.

bitplanes are used only in 1-8 bit color mode. 15bit - 32bit modes use chunky pixel (two/three/four consecutive bytes define pixel color).


I had a feeling that True colour on the falcon doesn't use a palette. Though for whatever reason, planes must be reported higher than 20 to cause a long integer to overflow..

I will just bypass that code on "out of spec" numbers.. the number of colours isn't actually used in GB6 anyway.. just seemed a good idea to program it in at the time :lol: :roll:
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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby lp » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:56 pm

32-bit gfx has an extra (unused) byte for an alpha channel. Simple fix is if you see 32-bit mode, report it as 24-bit color space, since that's what it actually yields. ie total_colors=shl(1,24)

As for the multi-tasking issues, it's basically terrible to be blunt. Allowing it to run is silly since it's not hard to detect a tasking OS. My advice is, if you are not going to support multi-tasking operating systems then you should check the aes global array entry for maximum current applications and show and alert box and exit. I can do this in about 4 lines of gfa code.

See global(1): http://toshyp.atari.org/en/008002.html#AES_20bindings

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Re: GEMBENCH 6

Postby exxos » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:40 pm

lp wrote:32-bit gfx has an extra (unused) byte for an alpha channel. Simple fix is if you see 32-bit mode, report it as 24-bit color space, since that's what it actually yields. ie total_colors=shl(1,24)


That would make sense. I guess I could report 16million colours on anything over 24bit.

lp wrote:As for the multi-tasking issues, it's basically terrible to be blunt. Allowing it to run is silly since it's not hard to detect a tasking OS. My advice is, if you are not going to support multi-tasking operating systems then you should check the aes global array entry for maximum current applications and show and alert box and exit. I can do this in about 4 lines of gfa code.

See global(1): http://toshyp.atari.org/en/008002.html#AES_20bindings


People shouldn't be running it under multitasking in the first place. The idea of GB6 is to benchmark real hardware, and slowing it all down with a multitasking environment is silly to start with. Then there are the guys who running at like a million % faster aswell, again its just not what Gembench was designed for.

Likely I will disable multitasking in future builds. I don't really have the time or motivation to look into adding in more code to run the multitasking stuff when it shouldn't be run in that situation in the first place.

I may also limit just to medium res and GB6 is supposed to be run in that mode. I allowed other modes such as ST-HI to run, and higher colour depths for the falcon. Though as all the benchmark files basically are all for medium res, people trying to compare benchmarks to various video resolutions are not going to be accurate anyway. There should be some standard which can be run on all machines and supporting every video combination would just make it over complicated with god knows how many benchmarking files.

I think people will probably moan when it doesn't run on their system, but if they are not using it on a system that it was designed to be run on, then they shouldn't be running it anyway. So good points overall. Will program in some limits next build. People either use it properly, or not at all.
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