New Atari PSU in the making

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:51 pm

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm#2015

More updates on the site. Mostly things are working well. Measuring the ripple is proving difficult, it seems to be a battle of the scope probes more than anything :roll:

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby spiny » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:23 pm

looks good :)
and £50 isn't outlandish for a scratch built project PSU, it compares well to a PICO + power brick - I paid more for the PSU in my PC!

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:56 pm

dml wrote:Niiiiiice :) Always liked toroidal cores...


Me to 8) I kinda got put off high voltage and switchmodes after working on repairing them for a few years :lol:

The transformer is a huge overkill really (60VA or 50VA) Though smaller ones are not much physically smaller and only like £1 cheaper. So just stuck with the "larger" ones. Something like 3amps on the 5V line pulls about 1amp on the toroid and its a 4amp transformer.

spiny wrote:looks good :)
and £50 isn't outlandish for a scratch built project PSU, it compares well to a PICO + power brick - I paid more for the PSU in my PC!


I've got a hefty 1,000watter in my PC, twice the size of a normal PSU. Think that was over £100 at the time. All my older PSU's even 900watt ones, they get so feking hot its unreal. Theres also a lot of BS in the specs for them IIRC also. I think it was the 3.3V rail amps. Like one PSU would rate it at 60amps, then another 20amps, both stated as like a 900watt PSU. usefulness for a 900watt PSU was more like a 300watt one, which is why mostly they use to die :lol: most newer boards take power from the 12V rail also which is good, but still have to be so careful with those wattage figures.

Which reminds me, the metal PSU cover probably won't fit over this PSU as the transformer is a bit to high. It only just fits under the plastic top half of the ST case. I don't think it needs the metal cover anyway. In fact it traps the heat in over the normal PSU's causing them to get twice as hot over time. So unless its causing nay RF problems, I'd suggest not bothering to put the PSU cover on. This new PSU I'm building, it hardly gets warm at all anywhere. Defiantly more efficient than the old PSU. Will try and do some efficiency figures in due time :)
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby dml » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:11 pm

exxos wrote:
dml wrote:Niiiiiice :) Always liked toroidal cores...


Me to 8) I kinda got put off high voltage and switchmodes after working on repairing them for a few years :lol:

The transformer is a huge overkill really (60VA or 50VA) Though smaller ones are not much physically smaller and only like £1 cheaper. So just stuck with the "larger" ones. Something like 3amps on the 5V line pulls about 1amp on the toroid and its a 4amp transformer.


I really don't like high voltage switching supplies - mainly because they are used as a reference design for most of the cheap brick supplies, and they have really bad failure modes. They tend to kill themselves and whatever they are connected to. Heat gets them after just a couple of years and... -> bang.

Made to be cheap, not to last.

I had a Fujitsu brick PC as a media player with one of those supplies and it randomly failed one day on startup. PC wouldn't turn on. After taking it apart, checking the RAM, battery clock etc.... decided to put a voltmeter on the brick.

230v instead of 19v. Nice, thanks very much. So everything went in the bin.

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:23 pm

dml wrote:I really don't like high voltage switching supplies - mainly because they are used as a reference design for most of the cheap brick supplies, and they have really bad failure modes. They tend to kill themselves and whatever they are connected to. Heat gets them after just a couple of years and... -> bang. Made to be cheap, not to last.

I had a Fujitsu brick PC as a media player with one of those supplies and it randomly failed one day on startup. PC wouldn't turn on. After taking it apart, checking the RAM, battery clock etc.... decided to put a voltmeter on the brick.

230v instead of 19v. Nice, thanks very much. So everything went in the bin.


ouch! I think a similar thing killed one of my picopsu's. I had a stock of 12v bricks as I used them on all sorts. One of them outputted 12V before I connected the picopsu, after faffing about, the PSU was outputting 80VDC!! Fear the thought of all those falcons connected to "cheap 12V bricks" 8O

I'm sure at some point I tested out a lot of those bricks and the regulation and stability was awful. Was stupid things like the more it was loaded the higher the voltage went. So you end up with like 22V on a 12V circuit, nice! I don't remember ever seeing a decent switchmode supply. I used to repair loads from many top manufactures, always used to make stupid mistakes cutting costs and corners. Like save 10p on a mosfet and run the PSU twice as hot until it explodes after 2 months of use.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:58 pm

Right, check this out, the scope probes were picking up noise from the motherboard. I was getting 150mV of noise depending on where the ground clip of the scope probe was. I gave up and used a load resistor and now getting 2mV of noise! That is awesome as its about as low as things can get. I've uploaded a few images and better progress on my site. http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/psu/index.htm#2015

So really just need to start tweaking to see if any improvements can be made, then its hopefully home-sailing on long term testing :)
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby dml » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:20 pm

Someone may have asked already - but does this fit in a plain MegaST?

...ok I dug back and see the answer is 'maybe later'. I fancy one of these for my STE but would be interested too for MegaST+Falcon also if you go in that direction later.

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:56 pm

dml wrote:Someone may have asked already - but does this fit in a plain MegaST?

...ok I dug back and see the answer is 'maybe later'. I fancy one of these for my STE but would be interested too for MegaST+Falcon also if you go in that direction later.


I've not checked the PCB on the MEGA PSU yet, if the PCB for the ST PSU and MEGA PSU is the same size with same mounting hole locations then it should fit on the MEGA framework. Its something I need to check..

I'm not sure about the falcon either , probably it would fit that PSU chassis as well, though I haven't been able to find the amps rating of the Falcon PSU, so little unsure how much juice it actually needs.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby anodyne » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:32 pm

I'm in Canada; is this just for UK/European voltages? What transformer specification should I look for if I want to source it locally?

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:01 am

anodyne wrote:I'm in Canada; is this just for UK/European voltages? What transformer specification should I look for if I want to source it locally?


If you look up a few posts I already stated the transformer I am using, so you can find a similar one if needs be. It has a dual primary, so can be wired for 230V / 115V AC input. So PSU will work on either voltage. Its basically a 30-60VA 12-15VAC transformer as a ballpark figure.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby anodyne » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:30 am

OK, thanks for the speedy response! Digi-Key has a few toroidal transformers that look like they would do, so put me down for a board without transformer.

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:27 pm

Looking more complete now :)

Had to order some new diodes, hopefully be here next week. The over-voltage cut-out was a little bit over enthusiastic :roll: :lol:

af1.jpg


I should be able to start taking pre-orders in a week or so time.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby Zogging Hell » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:19 am

My god it looks a bit like that thing in Iron Man's chest... ;)

Will definitely be ordering one once my finances get a bit less shaky.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby NGF » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:35 pm

Good projcet. This is very much needed for our aging ST's, keep up the good work! I would also be interested in purchasing one if it's easy to install :)
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby dml » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:47 pm

Put me down for one (with xformer) - two if it can be confirmed in a MegaST-4. IIRC they are identical but I can't check properly just now.

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby spiny » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:17 pm

Just grabbed my Mega1 (not sure how different the Mega4 is) and took some pics.
The PSU appears to be the -exact- same model as one of my STes, just with a different baseplate.

xDSCN0051.jpg


Mega on left, STe on right

xDSCN0054.jpg
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby dml » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:23 pm

spiny wrote:Just grabbed my Mega1 (not sure how different the Mega4 is) and took some pics.
The PSU appears to be the -exact- same model as one of my STes, just with a different baseplate.


Thanks - yeah I was pretty sure I had swapped it once already but couldn't check. The F030 one is definitely a different design but looks like this one should work in the MegaSTs unmodified...

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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:47 pm

Looks indeed like the MEGA PSU is the SR98 or similar. The MEGA1 PSU I have looks like a slight variation , not something as common as the SR98. So I need to look into that a little more at some point, but indeed should be no problem to fit. I have noticed a slight variation on the fixing holes. It looks like Atari had issues with that also as some PCB's have had a "offset hole" drilled. When I designed the PCB I made the holes a fraction larger to account for such things. But also the metalwork can become bent which doesn't help.

I have a spare Falcon PSU at home, so I will check a PCB on that tomorrow. The 5V regulator can push 4 or 5 amps. Though I have not checked the thermals on a higher load yet. I doubt it would get as hot as the falcon PSU even under heavy load anyway.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:47 pm

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/store.htm

PSU's now added into my store. At the bottom somewhere that is..

I've added in all the options for the the PSU (230V 110V types) and also UK, EU, USA. The transformer price itself includes additional postage costs due to the weight, so they transformer appears about £5 more. People will see need to add the postage separately at the top of the page like normal. Worst case is the transformer costs £20 for USA people to obtain. I am not 100% sure the postage costs are correct but I will be checking things tally before I actually post them out.

Please note these are PRE-ORDERS - meaning I have not built them yet and it is likely to take a couple of weeks. Once a order is placed, it goes in the "que" to be assembled and tested. The pre-orders have to be done so I know how many parts/transformers I need to buy for the first batch. So will be holding off for a few days to see how many orders come in :)
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby NGF » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:30 pm

How hard is it to do the replacement, do you have to solder it in place or is it plug&play? I haven't actually looked how the old one is connected yet..
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:07 pm

NGF wrote:How hard is it to do the replacement, do you have to solder it in place or is it plug&play? I haven't actually looked how the old one is connected yet..


I need to do a small guide.. Basically you have to solder the transformer wires into the switch.. Thats pretty much it. Though there is normally a plastic wrap around the mains switch and wires, so that has to come off first (it gets in the way of the new PCB anyway). If you check out my page, there is a image of it installed, so you can probably get a idea better..

If people send me their old PSU I can fit the new PCB for them ( I guess I could trade their old PCB for the work for fitting the new PSU board). Though as I am in the UK, this might not be viable for overseas people to start posting PSU's about. Though if they can't solder then I guess it would be a must for them.
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:49 pm

exxos wrote: Though as I am in the UK, this might not be viable for overseas people to start posting PSU's about.


Boy, did you just say a mouthful! :roll:
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Re: New Atari PSU in the making

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:56 pm

DarkLord wrote:
exxos wrote: Though as I am in the UK, this might not be viable for overseas people to start posting PSU's about.


Boy, did you just say a mouthful! :roll:


Yours were mostly customs problems I think though ? I cant remember exactly why it ended up that way.. Was it the declared value ?
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