ST Recover, a new ST disk utility on Windows

[ChrisB]

Any hope for this floppy, it contains a yahtzee game in croatian made by my dad's old friend and it would be a shame if it got lost.
ST-Recover Debug data for ChrisB: http://www.mediafire.com/?lqis33tslljdz1g

Sorry I was not here to see your message.
Thank you anyway for this debug info, it may help me to improve the software in the future.

From your infos, it is clear it is a 11 sectors/track disk, with many weak sectors, especially the boot sector (which normally tell us the format and the logical structure of the disk).

One thing I would like to add to my software is the analysis of the structure of the disk when the boot sector is missing.
That means finding how many sectors/tracks are there, how many tracks, where are the FATs, the size of the FATs, etc..

I'm glad you finally recovered your disk. I'm a bit surprised since it seems to be so damaged. Did you recover it directly on a real ST ?

A detail about the RAR archive: if you select the "solid archive" option in Winrar when you create it, you can reduce its size to 9 MB (in place of 103 MB). Just a useful tip.

[ChrisB]

BTW,there is just a n little bug on Win7,when you adjust the windows,the sector mapping dont adjust too.There is an blank.

Do you mean the sector tables do not fill all the window ? Or they are partly hidden by something ?
In the first case, "it is not bug, just a feature". In reality, I did not have time to make an automatic size adaptation to fill all the window (it is in my to-do list).

[ChrisB]

I'm assuming that this program works with standard 1.44mb floppy drives, and the driver you link to will let a 1.44mb drive read a ST ssfd, and dsfd?

As spiny says, yes your are right.
The fact we have to use a high-density (1.44 MB) disk drive explain partially, I think, the difficulties to read the ST disk. The drives do have the possibility to read them, but I guess their magnetic heads are mainly designed for high density. Another problem is that every ST drive is physically set, and these settings can change along the time (tracks alignment, rotation speed, track start mark, etc..) so disks formatted with an ST sometimes can not be read easily on another ST or a PC.
And finally the modern versions of Windows have a quite limited floppy driver, but hopefully the fdrawcmd driver is available and is much more advanced.

[Dizzy-WEWRF]

Hi out there

I've just a little Question ....


If I format a normal dd Disk on a
normal mega 2 put some stuff on
it and try then to read it
with
st recover or even also
flo-img Im not able to read the disks
at all .
I get an Bootsector error an read error
and so on , but knowing that the Disk is
totally ok and correct

Making an image on the mega 2
results in a perfekt image ...

Is there any reason why this wouldnt work
with your little tools ?


Thanks Dizzy

[Dizzy-WEWRF]

Hi out there

I've just a little Question ....


If I format a normal dd Disk on a
normal mega 2 put some stuff on
it and try then to read it
with
st recover or even also
flo-img Im not able to read the disks
at all .
I get an Bootsector error an read error
and so on , but knowing that the Disk is
totally ok and correct

Making an image on the mega 2
results in a perfekt image ...

Is there any reason why this wouldnt work
with your little tools ?


Thanks Dizzy

[jazzylee77]

Can't wait to try this software.

I used a 1040st and dr ts omega software on the road for 10 years as a one man band. the discs have been in a closet for 10 years (give or take a few years on both counts) My sequences were unique and represent literally thousands of hours of work. I tried a couple times to transfer via midi, but there was always something lacking...sysex not supported, tempo tracks lost... and I would give up.

I plan to grab a floppy drive and give this a try now. I know Dr ts is free for use on emulators so I might have the old system up and running soon thanks to this. well... minus a few obsolete tone generators... but after a little tweaking with some newer gear...

I'm guessing a usb drive would be sufficient since I don't recall doing any special size formatting? (but its been a long time...)

[Shredder11]

USB floppy drives rarely work for ST stuff, because they tend to be more software driven for the hardware routines I believe. It would be better to dig out an old desktop PC with an internal floppy drive, and then use software like Ppera's Floppy Image v1.02 to make an .msa image of your floppy(s). You can then load your software into something like the emulator STeem, which has support for MIDI hardware too.

Check out PPera's excellent website here http://atari.8bitchip.info/

Floppy Image v1.02 here http://atari.8bitchip.info/floimgd.php

[jazzylee77]

usb floppy drive working fine with my 720 discs, as software author suggested it would.

I'm really thrilled to be recovering this data.

[spiny]

I've been using this to image the bix box of disks I have, and I was just wondering if there are any updates planned (I know this is an old thread!)

I'm using this every day at the moment, so a few things that would make it nicer to use:

1: ability to maximise the window, so it shows all 80 tracks and 10/11 sectors on my nice big monitor
2: 'image read complete' message rather than 'Operation terminated' when a disk is read OK


I also have a growing pile of disks that give the error 'No disk in Drive' - these are all readable on my Actual ST, any ideas on why this error may occur ?

cheers, Phil.

[AtariZoll]

Not recognizing disk in drive error is most likely caused because floppy is formatted by Fast Copy Pro in fast mode on Atari - and PCs floppy controller can not detect first sector, which is too close to index - there was thread about it years ago. So, you can not image those disks on PC with standard floppy drive.

[spiny]

Not recognizing disk in drive error is most likely caused because floppy is formatted by Fast Copy Pro in fast mode on Atari - and PCs floppy controller can not detect first sector, which is too close to index - there was thread about it years ago. So, you can not image those disks on PC with standard floppy drive.

cool. is there a 'quick fix' ? At the moment I'm using my ST to copy the files to a new formatted disk, then imaging them, which takes a while

[AtariZoll]

That's the way. Hardly can be done faster.

[spiny]

Update from Chris:

Hello Phil,

I don't think I will be able to update this software, for lack of time.
In the first place it was a small personal tool I wrote to save my own disks. Then I decided to share it.
I am glad it is useful to many.

A couple of people asked me if I can improve it by managing protected disks. I replied that would need a lot of work and unfortunately I have not much spare time.

Source code is available on https://strecover.codeplex.com/ , so interested programmers can improve this software. Although that would need to analyse the source code, that is a good deal of work too.

Software has a value, and software has a cost, because somebody works on it.

In general, (sustainable) free software is funded by:
. donation [unsufficient], or
. advertisement on the project site [poor], or
. advertisement in the software itself [problematic], or
. inclusion of other software in the installer (Google Chrome for example) [questionable].

These modes of funding can only work with popular software. Probably more than 1 million downloads a month, maybe 100,000 at least.
I know ST Recover will never reach such a popularity.

Other projects need other kinds or funding, maybe by crowdfunding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowdfunding, I don't know.
For example, a realistic estimation to improve ST Recover is probably two months of full-time work. That is about 8,000 € (5,900 us$) at least here in France.

I worked on ST Recover on my spare time a couple of years ago. Now I am working on other free software (“AllProgs” http://prof-info.net/allprogs_english.htm for example) on my spare time too, and I'm struggling to find funding for other free software (notably a project for blind people).

I have new features for ST Recover in mind. Now the question is: how can I find time to work on them ?
Do you think people will want to fund that work ? Maybe I should ask them. That is an idea.

Christophe

P.S. You are free to publish my reply if you want.

So looks like there won't be any new versions soon, but as it works fine, it's not the end of the world
I've downloaded the source and I'll have a go at changing the window size and some of the text - who knows, I might make it work

[leonard]

That's the way. Hardly can be done faster.

If it's any use to someone here, I think I can fastly write an ST utility to "refresh" a floppy. I mean, the program will read, format and write back "in place" on the same disk, using a compatible format (supported by all PC floppy read utility). I had the problem myself with all my FastCopy pro formatted disk, unreadable on PC Of course that utility will only work with standard disk (user disk & 99% of demos), and obviously won't work with original protected games.

If anyone is interested I can do something that week end.

[spiny]

I would be interested, as it would help me with a growing pile of disks that I can't quickly image

[AtariZoll]

I could write such copy proggy too - in 1-2 hours - using existing routines. But, instead writing on same floppy, better is to write to another one, from safety reasons - because if it will read some part incorrect, and write back that, original data can not be recovered anymore. And floppies are pretty old now. So, what is the best is to use some good copy SW So, no need to make new one .
After copy, you can compare source and target, and if copy is flawless may use source floppy as target for another deFastCopy-isation
That way allows writing to same floppy, if someone insists

[leonard]

Make sense AtariZoll but using custom tool is still usefull. I can see some pros and cons

Pros:
- use the same disk, you can convert tons of disk without worrying to find new disks
- convert the disk in one pass, even on 512kb machine
- faster than copy to another disk ( you win the seek time )
- "refresh" your old disk ( if all sectors are read without error (even with retry), a new write-track is performed, could not be worst than before)

Cons:
- of course DONT use that on original protected disk or fancy formated disk
- could potentially lose the disk if it contains any copy protection

The tool should respect these rules to be as safe as possible:
- read all sectors of a track (using some retry if some errors)
- if any of one sector is not read correctly, cancel the operation and DONT write the track back
- if all sectors are read correctly, just perform a write track

[rcamp48]

Hi Chris: I have an old disk called Mr. Boston Official Micro Bartender's Guide, lots of blue blocks a few red ones, I am at present reading it on my old XP machine, I assume all 3 disks will be the same, it still runs but gives a weird color on Medium Rez. Should be done soon... Russ Campbell

[rcamp48]

Hi Chris: I have an old disk called Mr. Boston Official Micro Bartender's Guide, lots of blue blocks a few red ones, I am at present reading it on my old XP machine, I assume all 3 disks will be the same, it still runs but gives a weird color on Medium Rez. Should be done soon... Russ Campbell

PS: I can test 11 sectors per track , I have disks that are made in 11 sectors , 86 tracks , 2 sides and they work perfectly on my ATari ST, I would be glad to test out the program for you Russ

[rcamp48]

OK Chris ST Recover has been tested with 11 sectors per track, 84 tracks, 1 side, read perfectly on my Mitsumi floppy drive, next test is 11 sectors per track , 86 tracks , 2 sides, I can format them on my Atari ST no problem, will edit this message and put in the results just in case you read it before I am finished.

[spiny]

OK Chris ST Recover has been tested with 11 sectors per track, 84 tracks, 1 side, read perfectly on my Mitsumi floppy drive, next test is 11 sectors per track , 86 tracks , 2 sides, I can format them on my Atari ST no problem, will edit this message and put in the results just in case you read it before I am finished.

ST recover will read whatever the floppy drive in your PC can read. The limitation is the PC floppy, not the software.

[rcamp48]

Spiny what would you recommend for a seized floppy disk. I have the ICD Host Adapter disk but it is seized, I would really like to recover it. Russ

[spiny]

Spiny what would you recommend for a seized floppy disk. I have the ICD Host Adapter disk but it is seized, I would really like to recover it. Russ

easiest option: download another copy from the internet

but to fix a duff disk you are going to need to take it apart and clean it by had carefully, then see if you can read it once it's back in it's case.

1: prise off the metal slide
2: remove and disacrd the tiny spring
3: crack the floppy case open
4: remove media and carefully clean
5: put media back in case, clip closed
6: try a read

[rcamp48]

ST Recover is a great program, I have recovered some 20-25 Atari ST disks that were totally unreadable by any other program, all stuff that is originals I will be putting them online later on. Who do I talk to about donating $$$ towards the project it is worth it.

[rcamp48]

Has anyone got a copy of the ICD Host Adapter disk, I am working on an original, it has something sticky on the plastic, I have managed to clean most of it off, but the metal center has come off I am not sure if I can recover it, the plastic part is perfect to the eye no scratches, etc. One of the things I learned the hard way and this is probably a product of it is NEVER use isopropal alcohol to clean disks. Not only does it put a sticky film on your disk, but it may ruin your drive heads. This disk had to have been something else as the paper inside had almost turned to gel, someone had cleaned it with something else besides alcohol. It may never be recoverable, who knows. I do have some 1200 floppies to go through is there an unformat program for the ST? Russ