osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby beastie » Mon May 26, 2008 12:22 am

alexh wrote:In fact the entire thing (board, lcd and touch screen) looks like the Official Intel StrongARM development Kit circa 2000


:lol: Really?

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby alexh » Mon May 26, 2008 8:42 am

Could just be a coincidence but it looks a _lot_ like the StrongARM handheld RDK (Reference Design Kit).

There seems to be no space on the boards for a Coldfire coprocessor.

Using an 8 yo "end-of-life" chip (SA-1110) in a new design today is total madness!

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby earx » Wed May 28, 2008 7:12 am

Using an 8 yo "end-of-life" chip (SA-1110) in a new design today is total madness!


that would have made sense on any other bbs. *goes back to writing delta fillers on his 1040ST*

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed May 28, 2008 8:41 am

earx wrote:
Using an 8 yo "end-of-life" chip (SA-1110) in a new design today is total madness!


that would have made sense on any other bbs. *goes back to writing delta fillers on his 1040ST*


Agree :D We all work here on and for machines that have reached and surpassed their end-of-life for more than 10 years.
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby alexh » Wed May 28, 2008 1:29 pm

earx wrote:that would have made sense on any other bbs. *goes back to writing delta fillers on his 1040ST*

Yeah but using EOL chips was a big contributing factor in several failed Coldfire projects for the Amiga. They chose the oldest Coldfire chip, that had already EOL'd over a year previous, and then couldn't afford to re-spin the board when they found they couldn't buy the chips anymore at a decent price in quantities.

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby aRt » Wed May 28, 2008 2:57 pm

True points guys, though this is what I could afford right now, and this arm chip has successors with more or less the same instructions, meaning its not all that vague an idea after all. The ARM architecture is not dead, and there are loads of arm chips still.

Ill put up some more info on the site soon - and try to better things for those that surf using cab and the likes.

For now, I have some work to do so I can put up some visuals of a boot process.

Atm, regarding coldfire (- it will be on a daughter board ), there will either be a coldfire board designed and sent to production, Or a blackfin dsp (fpga) that will be loaded with veritos software to act as a 68030 on speed, or 68060 / 40 - which I think would be the best instead of having to patch software for running on coldfire. This fpga is 500Mhz and comes on a CF card - some amiga ppl have allready porten the 68k architecture to veritos language.

considerations are being done regarding implementing a 2612 chip for ym sound + extra goodies - if this is stupid rather than implementing a ym2149 chip, please tell me. I chose 2612 as it has the features of ym2149 - well most of them imo - and an extra channel for pcm. it also existed in dx100 yamaha synths.

ttyl,

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby CopperCAT » Wed May 28, 2008 4:16 pm

aRt wrote:Atm, regarding coldfire (- it will be on a daughter board ), there will either be a coldfire board designed and sent to production, Or a blackfin dsp (fpga) that will be loaded with veritos software to act as a 68030 on speed, or 68060 / 40 - which I think would be the best instead of having to patch software for running on coldfire. This fpga is 500Mhz and comes on a CF card - some amiga ppl have allready porten the 68k architecture to veritos language.


You think it would be possible to implement an 68030 on an fpga? That would be awesome, as it could also be used in the fpga-arcade or SuskaIII project :)

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby earx » Wed May 28, 2008 7:50 pm

the 68030 on a fpga is a dream. it has 6 times the transistor count of the 68000. a non-cycle-accurate version could maybe be feasible. with dedicated hardware guru (or two) working around the clock.. the bitfield instructions, crazy addressing modes, cache controller and especially the horribly overcomplete mmu will be a nightmare. just my words of warning to you.

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby beastie » Wed May 28, 2008 8:12 pm

earx wrote:the 68030 on a fpga is a dream. it has 6 times the transistor count of the 68000. a non-cycle-accurate version could maybe be feasible. with dedicated hardware guru (or two) working around the clock.. the bitfield instructions, crazy addressing modes, cache controller and especially the horribly overcomplete mmu will be a nightmare. just my words of warning to you.


I wish all the best to aRT. I would really like to see, that he success.

:cheers:

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu May 29, 2008 6:54 am

earx wrote:the 68030 on a fpga is a dream. it has 6 times the transistor count of the 68000. a non-cycle-accurate version could maybe be feasible. with dedicated hardware guru (or two) working around the clock.. the bitfield instructions, crazy addressing modes, cache controller and especially the horribly overcomplete mmu will be a nightmare. just my words of warning to you.


In theory a FPGA should be able to do it as the computational power (in the sense of computer science) of the FPGA is the same as an ASIC design (like the 68030 once was). In practice it probably requires a very large FPGA and heavy code optimizations.
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby shoggoth » Thu May 29, 2008 10:24 am

While an FPGA 68030 would be cool, I'm starting to wonder about performance and what kind of target audience we're talking. Personally, the next step would have to offer more than current solutions (read: 060) in terms of speed. Then again, I get the impression that this is a hand held device, so maybe not.
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby aRt » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:21 pm

yes if u read the info on the web page - it is a sub-size computer - hopefully it will become a laptop which is my main goal.

aRt.

currently, a forum is being built up where coldfire and arm users may find
tools and sourcecode + various documentation.
This place is also meant for artistic atarians - hence the name artari :D
(who am I fooling? noone, cause my nick is in it too :P ;)

Currently there is not a need for anyone to join just yet as it isnt even properly styled yet.

ospreys new home is here:
http://artari.co.cc
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby shoggoth » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:18 am

aRt wrote:have flash enabled boys & gals
- edit - prohosts was too slow - new link
http://artari.co.cc/


Well, this one on the other hand seems dead. I'm forwarded to free-web-hosting.biz.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby jkolak » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:59 pm

There's quite a bit of discussion at the Aranym site about the evolution of the next generation of Atari clones. I'll let you all look at their ideas yourselves, but the main thing I got from it all is that modern CPU speeds and operating techniques mean that the evolution of Atari is not in cloning the ST. Only well-written software is going to work on it, and a modern Atari won't play ST games any better than a modern Mac plays vintage Mac software.

http://wiki.aranym.org/aranym_xylab_articles

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby lp » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:12 am

jkolak wrote:There's quite a bit of discussion at the Aranym site about the evolution of the next generation of Atari clones. I'll let you all look at their ideas yourselves, but the main thing I got from it all is that modern CPU speeds and operating techniques mean that the evolution of Atari is not in cloning the ST. Only well-written software is going to work on it, and a modern Atari won't play ST games any better than a modern Mac plays vintage Mac software.

http://wiki.aranym.org/aranym_xylab_articles


Well everyone has a different idea or needs. Myself I don't bother with games, I prefer some piece of hardware even if it's a bit more expensive.

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby shoggoth » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:07 pm

Did this project vaporize or what happened?
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby havoc » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:51 pm

thin air doesn't vaporize very well

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby jfl » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:13 pm

This so-called project sounded like vapourware from the get-go.
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby lp » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:36 pm

havoc wrote:thin air doesn't vaporize very well


Speaking of air, far as I can tell it's based on the 'balloon board'. So that would be hot air? :wink:

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8608269433.html

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby havoc » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:41 pm

lp: to make an analogy... gfabasic is real, but charles' calculator is thin air ;)

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby Desty » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:29 pm

havoc wrote:lp: to make an analogy... gfabasic is real, but charles' calculator is thin air ;)

..Ouch :wink:
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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby Ragstaff » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:37 am

havoc wrote:lp: to make an analogy... gfabasic is real, but charles' calculator is thin air ;)

actually, if you've read all that thread he did create a calculator eventually, which Hans Wessels even benckmarked against the other GFA solutions there (it was the slowest by a lot, but it was accurate!).

i understand your analogy though :) You are probably right, although I do remember lurking on DHS about 4 years ago when people were arguing that the CT60 was vapourware... I'm really stretching my memory here but I think you were one of them ;-)

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby havoc » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:10 am

hmm- i don't recall arguing that consistently for sure, it wouldn't make sense because rodolphe's track record is clear: he always delivers (after prepayment a year or 2 ahead of the fact- the only element of rodolphe's enterprise i have argued against on several occasions- could this be the source of the misinterpretation perhaps? ;))

concerning the calculator, hmm i just glanced at that thread once or twice, and got the impression the thing didn't work without a heap of additional debugging/hints and tips from the audience/etc. so in my mind, charles never managed to get it to work.. but i could be wrong ;)

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby Ragstaff » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:56 am

havoc wrote:i have argued against on several occasions- could this be the source of the misinterpretation perhaps? ;))

My memeory and time could also be the source of misinterpretation as well :)
havoc wrote:concerning the calculator, hmm i just glanced at that thread once or twice, and got the impression the thing didn't work without a heap of additional debugging/hints and tips from the audience/etc. so in my mind, charles never managed to get it to work.. but i could be wrong ;)

Yeah, he did need a lot of help. he said it was finished once or twice when it still had basic flaws. It's an amusing thread ;-)

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Re: osprey atari coldfire + arm still in development

Postby jkolak » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:44 am

shoggoth wrote:While an FPGA 68030 would be cool, I'm starting to wonder about performance and what kind of target audience we're talking. Personally, the next step would have to offer more than current solutions (read: 060) in terms of speed. Then again, I get the impression that this is a hand held device, so maybe not.


I'm not sure that wanting new Atari hardware isn't barking up the wrong tree. The question is, what would a modern Atari look like today? Surely, if Atari had survived to the present, like Apple, they would have been forced to make the same tough decisions that Apple made, namely facing the loss of competitiveness of chips from Motorola and IBM and being forced to move the OS over to Intel and the common modern hardware platform.

As I posted on another forum, if Mac can switch their OS over to Intel, then so can we.

The computer industry is on the verge of a major change right now. Just as in our Atari days we saw the industry transition from a single application hogging the computer to a multi-tasking environment, so we will soon see the end of the day that a single OS will take over and hog the entire computer. The time will soon come when you will boot up your computer to an OS manager which will allow you to multitask operating systems and run whatever OSs you want concurrently. Just as you can use VM Ware or Virtual Box to run Mac OS and Windows simultaneously on a Mac or Windows and Linux simultaneously on a PC, we will see the obstacles overcome so that we can run Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Atari OS, Amiga OS and whatever all simultaneously, so the need to port our OS to the common Intel platform is important.

In this scenario it will make it imminently more practical to use Atari software because it overcomes the problem of having to own more than one computer if you want to be active with Atari, and ends the age old debate over what kind of computer you should own because you will be able to run any kind of OS you want on your computer.


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