Atari TT030 and system V

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paul92706
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby paul92706 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:37 pm

tenox wrote:
paul92706 wrote:Hi guy's i finally managed to write the asv disk image to my SCSI2SD micro drive. Now upon bootup the system is asking me for a "Login" and "Password". I used GUEST as a Login and PASSWD for password, and No go, it is incorrect. Is there somthing i can do to bypass this or get around the Login and Password? Thanks


I think it's root with empty password


If i type "root" empty password it puts me into a shell command line, so does not work either. Hmmm
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 am

paul92706 wrote:
tenox wrote:
paul92706 wrote:Hi guy's i finally managed to write the asv disk image to my SCSI2SD micro drive. Now upon bootup the system is asking me for a "Login" and "Password". I used GUEST as a Login and PASSWD for password, and No go, it is incorrect. Is there somthing i can do to bypass this or get around the Login and Password? Thanks


I think it's root with empty password


If i type "root" empty password it puts me into a shell command line, so does not work either. Hmmm


so you have it up and running but X-Windows/Motif doesn't appear to start. Do you have a monochrome monitor connected to the ECL port?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby paul92706 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:33 am

mfro wrote:
paul92706 wrote:
tenox wrote:
I think it's root with empty password


If i type "root" empty password it puts me into a shell command line, so does not work either. Hmmm


so you have it up and running but X-Windows/Motif doesn't appear to start. Do you have a monochrome monitor connected to the ECL port?

Right, i am using standard VGA port on TT030, i asume it requires monochrome?
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:52 pm

paul92706 wrote:
mfro wrote:
paul92706 wrote:
If i type "root" empty password it puts me into a shell command line, so does not work either. Hmmm


so you have it up and running but X-Windows/Motif doesn't appear to start. Do you have a monochrome monitor connected to the ECL port?

Right, i am using standard VGA port on TT030, i asume it requires monochrome?


Right you are.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby paul92706 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 pm

mfro wrote:
paul92706 wrote:
mfro wrote:
so you have it up and running but X-Windows/Motif doesn't appear to start. Do you have a monochrome monitor connected to the ECL port?

Right, i am using standard VGA port on TT030, i asume it requires monochrome?


Right you are.


Oh darn! I have a VME graphics card, could i use that? Or what are my options?
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:13 pm

paul92706 wrote:
mfro wrote:
paul92706 wrote:Right, i am using standard VGA port on TT030, i asume it requires monochrome?


Right you are.


Oh darn! I have a VME graphics card, could i use that?


... only if you are going to write a driver for it.

Or what are my options?

TTM194/195 or ECL->VGA adapter.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:38 am

paul92706 wrote:Oh darn! I have a VME graphics card, could i use that? Or what are my options?


Your options are essentially TTM19x monitor or one of ECL2VGA adapters.

VME graphics card will not work. Also you need VME slot for Riebl network card.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:09 am

tenox wrote:VME graphics card will not work. Also you need VME slot for Riebl network card.


You can use a VME bus extender. I have a Riebl card + a Crazy Dots in my TT running happily side by side.

It's the driver side that lacks, for now I only have some code fragments that allow me to draw some coloured pixels on the Crazy Dots. At least it proves it would be possible...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:20 am

Is there a driver for NetBSD X11?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:27 am

tenox wrote:Is there a driver for NetBSD X11?


Yes, I think it has an ET4000 driver (at least in older versions). But NetBSD has a completely different driver model than SysV, so no drop-in replacement possible, unfortunately.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:31 am

...of course but at least the X11 side will be the same.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:41 am

tenox wrote:...of course but at least the X11 side will be the same.


Not sure. It's been a while, but I think I remember the BSD X11 driver relies on a graphics capable kernel framebuffer driver. ASV Unix console driver is character only and its X11 implementation just mmaps() display memory. There will be a lot to reuse, but nevertheless a new implementation.

Btw. I wouldn't even be surprised if ASV used ROM BIOS/LineA functions for console I/O. Never checked that, but it would explain why you get a perfectly working console on VGA (or even on the Falcon, just before it crashes from missing hardware).

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mzry » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:30 am

Hey guys, any comments on my post about Atari Unix based on mint and x11 a few posts back in this thread? I am very interested in what you guys think of it.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:21 pm

mzry wrote:Hey guys, any comments on my post about Atari Unix based on mint and x11 a few posts back in this thread? I am very interested in what you guys think of it.


It is what it is: MiNT. With all its advantages and shortcomings. But it's not Unix.

If you want my opinion: it has historic value, but why should one use 23 year old software when you can get the same thing as current (and much more modern) version under active development?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:46 am

mzry wrote:Hey guys, any comments on my post about Atari Unix based on mint and x11 a few posts back in this thread? I am very interested in what you guys think of it.


X11 on Mint is nothing new, I had it installed on Mint many years ago on my falcon.
It is not a difficult thing to install.
If you want to try it, I did a Howto as well.
You do not need to re-install using those TAF floppies all over again.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:00 am

wongck wrote:
mzry wrote:Hey guys, any comments on my post about Atari Unix based on mint and x11 a few posts back in this thread? I am very interested in what you guys think of it.


X11 on Mint is nothing new, I had it installed on Mint many years ago on my falcon.
It is not a difficult thing to install.
If you want to try it, I did a Howto as well.
You do not need to re-install using those TAF floppies all over again.

I think the very first time I ran X11 was on my Mega STe, in all it's glory I didn't have enough memory to do much more than get the X on the screen. I actually think that was one of the driving factors of me getting a TT030, but I didn't do that until a few years later, and never got around to actually doing that.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:01 am

leech wrote:I think the very first time I ran X11 was on my Mega STe, in all it's glory I didn't have enough memory to do much more than get the X on the screen. I actually think that was one of the driving factors of me getting a TT030, but I didn't do that until a few years later, and never got around to actually doing that.

Good time to try on your TT now. :D
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:49 am

wongck wrote:
leech wrote:I think the very first time I ran X11 was on my Mega STe, in all it's glory I didn't have enough memory to do much more than get the X on the screen. I actually think that was one of the driving factors of me getting a TT030, but I didn't do that until a few years later, and never got around to actually doing that.

Good time to try on your TT now. :D

True! Especially since I now have loads of memory!
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:00 am

Probably you'll be rather disappointed.

The X-Windows protocol was fine when the average Motif application consisted of a handful of buttons and pulldowns.
Modern applications (like e.g. Firefox) are worlds apart and way off the capabilities of your TT to be usable (even slow on modern machines and GBit networks).

You will take a few screenshots (or maybe not, these don't even look good on the limited colour-depth of your Atari) and drop it, I'm afraid.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mzry » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:49 pm

Ah okay :) For some reason I had the idea of it being a Unix window manager on top of an Atari mint kernel, allowing Atari drivers with Unix applications.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:27 pm

mfro wrote:Probably you'll be rather disappointed.

The X-Windows protocol was fine when the average Motif application consisted of a handful of buttons and pulldowns.
Modern applications (like e.g. Firefox) are worlds apart and way off the capabilities of your TT to be usable (even slow on modern machines and GBit networks).

You will take a few screenshots (or maybe not, these don't even look good on the limited colour-depth of your Atari) and drop it, I'm afraid.

I wouldn't be disappointed because I'm well aware of what the capabilities are.

The sad thing is that Firefox itself is a little heavy, but just browsing simple pages isn't too bad, it's the ones that are heavily written in java script and flash that just make everything chug. That or running it on Windows 10 which I swear recently has purposefully gimped Firefox...

I use Linux for almost everything these days, looking at old crusty Unix is just a curiosity for me at this point. There are some others that i work with that are keen to playing around with it though!
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:32 pm

leech wrote:... The sad thing is that Firefox itself is a little heavy, but just browsing simple pages isn't too bad, it's the ones that are heavily written in java script and flash that just make everything chug...


I wasn't talking about running Firefox on the TT, but redirect its display to it using the X-Windows protocol. That's rather slow already...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby ThorstenOtto » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:27 pm

mfro wrote:I wasn't talking about running Firefox on the TT


That's hardly possible ;) Not only because of the speed, but also because a lot of the required libraries (like gtk) are missing.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:33 pm

ThorstenOtto wrote:
mfro wrote:I wasn't talking about running Firefox on the TT


That's hardly possible ;) Not only because of the speed, but also because a lot of the required libraries (like gtk) are missing.


They aren't missing - everything OpenSource. It's just that nobody compiled them yet. So it is *only* a matter of speed (or better: remaining lifetime) :angel:

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:09 am

Firefox would be way way way to slow for TT. I have compiled Mosaic for ASV. You can use it in conjunction with WRP (Web Rendering Proxy) to browse modern websites.

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