The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

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The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:52 am

So this is the AKReal version 9 WIP video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z__-foQjB0

I have seen some nice looking Atari desktops, I'm just wondering how nice we can make it! Granted, here he's running it on WinUAE, but it doesn't run too shabby on a 68060 either.

The operating systems are definitely very different in how you configure them, but with XaAES, we should be able to make it look as nice as AfaOS does for the Amiga.

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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby calimero » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:30 am

It is too color full :D
With Windows 10 trend is to everything looks like on spectrum or commodore: 8 colors! :D
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:36 am

Ha! Oh don't I know it.. flat icons... I actually many times had said that stock TOS icons look better/convey what they are better than the Windows 10 flat design ones.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby mikro » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:27 am

This is good thinking, FreeMiNT needs this as hell else 90% of Atari users would die thinking that FreeMiNT = booting into that command line shell.

Faucon2001 has done pretty cool job with his BeeKey / EasyAraMiNT but more is possible.

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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby christos » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:55 am

So, why would anyone make anything that looks like Gnome Shell is beyond me. That Amiga desktop is really coarse (if that's the correct term) and all the icons are huge. The usable screenspace is also minimised by all the stuff running on screen. Most of them you don't need anyway. It's no wonder that minimal desktop experiences like Mate and ElementaryOS are now all the rage.

In my view, this is a much more elegant desktop but I think that zDesk development has stopped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBYCUf3XbQ
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:17 am

There is a big lie there - it is not 16 colors for sure. Really should not take seriously all what is written.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:35 am

I don't understand the desire for cluttered, overloaded, vivid coloured desktops.

GEM Desktop is by design a lightweight, minimal interface focused on functionality and productivity. And that's exactly what I still find so likeable after years.

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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby trecool » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:02 am

AtariZoll wrote:There is a big lie there - it is not 16 colors for sure. Really should not take seriously all what is written.


Yes, obviously

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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby Gaiyan » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:36 am

AtariZoll wrote:There is a big lie there - it is not 16 colors for sure. Really should not take seriously all what is written.


Probably 16bit color.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby calimero » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:49 am

I think that it is nice to see Amiga OS on pair with todays desktops: it does not matter if you like Gnome or not; but it is still nice that Amiga can do this.

I was astonished by transparency and antialiasing fonts with MyAES!
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:48 am

What I miss in modern OS-es is not some visual, cosmetic thing, but something what I seen only in TOS 2.06 and later: loading DESKTOP.INF (or NEWDESK,INF) file at any time - and you get in moment your layout for specific work, activity. It has sense actually only with hard disk, so no wonder that was not present in earlier TOS versions.
What would be useful is some special snapshot function, where can save not only Desktop layout, but complete TOS workspace, drivers and like. Then could load it later and set system to that state in really short time - couple secs max. - from hard drive. That would be for serious usage, not for gaming, and all clean written SW should work well with it. I'm thinking about doing cartridge with it.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby EmpireAndrew » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:37 pm

16 color Workbench my ar$e...

The problem for me is, as many have already said, the clutter.
Which tells me this is just a machine the owner messes with as opposed to does any work on...

De-cluttered, with a plain wallpaper, and los the stupid stats panels (keep em as an icon in the menu) and it would look good.

I've learnt from 15 years+ on Macs as my daily drivers that less is more.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:59 pm

christos wrote:So, why would anyone make anything that looks like Gnome Shell is beyond me. That Amiga desktop is really coarse (if that's the correct term) and all the icons are huge. The usable screenspace is also minimised by all the stuff running on screen. Most of them you don't need anyway. It's no wonder that minimal desktop experiences like Mate and ElementaryOS are now all the rage.

In my view, this is a much more elegant desktop but I think that zDesk development has stopped:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBYCUf3XbQ


Wait, what? That doesn't look anything like Gnome Shell. AmiDock has been around for a long long time, and it's just a Dock, like any other dock out there. Though to be fair, Gnome did try to take some interesting 'features' from the Amiga, like the Spatial Nautilus that everyone hated. Still hard for me to get used to the way the Amiga treats every folder as a new window to be opened, but with custom icons and how it does things, it kind of makes sense. But that's a OS level thing, and not so much a look/feel thing.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:04 pm

EmpireAndrew wrote:16 color Workbench my ar$e...

The problem for me is, as many have already said, the clutter.
Which tells me this is just a machine the owner messes with as opposed to does any work on...

De-cluttered, with a plain wallpaper, and los the stupid stats panels (keep em as an icon in the menu) and it would look good.

I've learnt from 15 years+ on Macs as my daily drivers that less is more.


I don't know about that wallpaper there, but I've used some of his other 16 color wallpapers and they actually are 16 colors (I verified it with gimp if I recall). not sure how that's cluttered, there is Amidock (easily removed / minimized) and disk icons, with a link to aminet. I think my Teradesk desktop is more cluttered than that.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby mikro » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:45 pm

AtariZoll wrote:What I miss in modern OS-es is not some visual, cosmetic thing, but something what I seen only in TOS 2.06 and later: loading DESKTOP.INF (or NEWDESK,INF) file at any time - and you get in moment your layout for specific work, activity.

This is an interesting observation, have never thought of that. In a way, KDE has something like that (it's even call "Activities") but it's far less useful (and obvious).

What would be useful is some special snapshot function, where can save not only Desktop layout, but complete TOS workspace, drivers and like. Then could load it later and set system to that state in really short time - couple secs max. - from hard drive.

You're basically asking for a VirtualBox on Atari. Not impossible and certainly super interesting project (imagine how little would be needed to make it an Amiga VM from there).

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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:39 pm

Wow, I'd never thought of doing that with NEWDESK.INF. That's brilliant. Is there any sort of GUI manager for that? Like you could have it auto-rename things like AUTOSORT, XBOOT, etc do? Then you could have something like 'ACTIVITY' folder with various named INF files that could be moved around and loaded into memory.

I always thought NEWDESK.INF was just loaded on start up and contained icon placement and file associations, wasn't sure what more you could do with it.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby Estrayk » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:57 pm

I did this video time ago with my A1200 and I think that I used 64 colors. So I think that the first post video can't be 16 col.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7n7XYJPgSs
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby joska » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:18 pm

leech wrote:The operating systems are definitely very different in how you configure them, but with XaAES, we should be able to make it look as nice as AfaOS does for the Amiga.


A matter of taste I guess, but I've always found Workbench just plain ugly. The current look is just tarted up versions of the 1985 Workbench. Ugly fonts, undersized widgets, boxes and frames everywhere, ugly colours and just wrong. It still looks like something designed by a demo crew in 1987.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby wongck » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:26 pm

joska wrote: It still looks like something designed by a demo crew in 1987.


Yes, That's it !!!
When I looked at it , it looked familiar and wonder what..... it's just like a demo.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:55 am

Estrayk wrote:I did this video time ago with my A1200 and I think that I used 64 colors. So I think that the first post video can't be 16 col.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7n7XYJPgSs

Ha, I see you called out Retrofan for it.

The palette they use is amazing. That's what I was mainly aiming at with this thread, if we can get a nice palette built out so that a TOS desktop could look nicer. Some people like shiny things.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby jfl » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:22 am

calimero wrote:I was astonished by transparency and antialiasing fonts with MyAES!

Font antialiasing has nothing to do with the AES. It's a VDI feature that depends on the screen driver. You can have antialiasing with XaAES too.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby jfl » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:29 am

I find my FireBee's desktop way prettier than any Amiga workbench I've ever seen. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder I guess.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby 1st1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:02 am

AtariZoll wrote:What I miss in modern OS-es is not some visual, cosmetic thing, but something what I seen only in TOS 2.06 and later: loading DESKTOP.INF (or NEWDESK,INF) file at any time - and you get in moment your layout for specific work, activity.


There is such tool for Windows 10 at least for icon positions. It's called DesktopOK, it can save desktop icon arrangements for different purposeses and resolutions under own names and it can reload them. For design there are several themes managers.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby 1st1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:04 am

joska wrote:
leech wrote:The operating systems are definitely very different in how you configure them, but with XaAES, we should be able to make it look as nice as AfaOS does for the Amiga.


A matter of taste I guess, but I've always found Workbench just plain ugly. The current look is just tarted up versions of the 1985 Workbench. Ugly fonts, undersized widgets, boxes and frames everywhere, ugly colours and just wrong. It still looks like something designed by a demo crew in 1987.



I think Classic Workbench under Kick 3.1 looks quite nice. It's not overloaded and very configurable. I didn't had a closer look on AMiga-OS 3.9 yet, so I don't have an opinion.
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Re: The game is on (can we make MiNT/TOS this pretty?)

Postby leech » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:14 am

jfl wrote:I find my FireBee's desktop way prettier than any Amiga workbench I've ever seen. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder I guess.


Pics or it didn't happen! This is mostly a 'pretty desktop' thread. Now obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to see some of what the various Atari ST desktops can look like.
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