VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dbsys » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:10 pm

trecool wrote:Since we have standard sw and hw, it would be nice if someone could make a list of the working resolutions/settings.


Great idea. It would be very nice and helpful to have such a list.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:57 pm

dhedberg wrote:I own the Videlity software, but it does not let me enable the external clock when used with the Blow-Up hardware. Can you please send me the version you have?

The random horizontal lines that you see, are those black and thin? Do they appear regardless of what oscillator you use (40/50 MHz)?
You say that the lines only appear when using the Videlity software but not the BlowUp software? That most likely rules out hardware problems.


Sure. Will package it up when I get back on the machine. Might not be tonight though, I'm afraid. Videlity does tell me 'no external hardware attached', but still seems to accept me switching to external mode.

Yes, the lines are dark (I'd call them grey), horizontal, thin (2-3 pixels, perhaps) and extend for approximately 1/3 the screen width. Mostly towards the lower half of the screen, but occasionally towards the top right. Some kind of synchronisation issue?

So far I've only seen them with Videlity rather than Blowup, but this is only after one evening's tinkering and most of that was spent hunting video modes, so I haven't done a thorough investigation. I only tried the Videlity software after switching to 40MHz, so have no data on the 50 yet.

I can't quite get identical modes between the two pieces of software, so I can't rule out it's physical rather than logical, but first impressions would imply it's software-affected.

One other notable thing which may be related is that under the 50MHz xtal, enough current is drawn to keep my USB charging cell active whereas under 40MHz it thinks it's inactive and switches off. I've not put an ammeter in series, but interesting nonetheless and I wouldn't rule out a connection just yet.

Thanks!

BW.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby leech » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:27 pm

Mine has arrived in the US yesterday. Hopefully it doesn't take forever at customs, like I've had things do before...
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby crashman » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm

Hi!
parcel received in Spain.
Wonderful work dhedberg !!!
Here you can see my modded one.
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby crashman » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:54 pm

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby crashman » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:55 pm

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dhedberg » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:18 am

Wow. Great work on the case! I have not finished mine yet but inspired by yours I'll try to find time this weekend.
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dbsys » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:07 am

Nice work, crashman.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby leech » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:05 pm

Nice case! Got mine, needs a case, but even more so, needs some resolution love. Do we have a file somewhere for some fairly standard resolutions+settings+frequencies?
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby leech » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:36 pm

Can we maybe get some screen shots of working configs? I managed to get the 880x480 resolution to load on it, from the STANDARD.BCF file, but all of the other settings there are for MultiSync monitors. Don't exactly feel like trying to make room for my 21" CRT for that to work on...
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dhedberg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:57 pm

Here's two modes. 1024*768 in 2 and 16 colors. I use them on my NEC LCD. The vertical frequency is pretty low so probably not suitable for a CRT.
Horizontal freq: 41.1KHz
Vertical freq: 52.0Hz
Uses the 50MHz oscillator.

Put the lines below in your DEFAULT.BCF file (or if you have not yet saved any custom configurations, create such a file and put these two lines in them). Once in the file you can load them in BLOWCONF.PRG and then save them (SAVE BOOT) so you can select them using the BLOWACC.ACC accessory.

MS 1024 768 0 2 1216 64 128 244 790 18 772 2 1 50.000000
MS 1024 768 0 2 1216 52 140 244 790 18 772 2 4 50.000000
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby trecool » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:19 am

Perfect! Thanks a lot. More setups would be much appreciated.
Can't wait to have it!

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Atari030 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:27 pm

No time to play tonight, but it arrived in Australia. Thanks Daniel, looking forward to getting it up and running.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:58 pm

Hi Daniel,

Here's the result of last night's testing with Blowup, Videlity, MiNT 1.19 and NVDI 3. And here's the version of Videlity I'm using:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t51ic8c8j1ssz1k/videlity.zip?dl=0


50MHz Oscillator: 960x512/16 colours

Using Blowup:
[*]TOS: OK
Image

[*]TOS+NVDI: OK
Image

[*]MiNT/XAAES: FAIL
Image

Using Videlity:
[*]TOS: 'ECHO' DISTORTION
Image

[*]TOS+NVDI: ALSO DISTORTION

[*]MiNT: WORSE DISTORTION


40MHz Oscillator: 960x512/16 colours

Using Blowup
[*]TOS: OK

[*]TOS+NVDI: OK

[*]MiNT/XAAES: FAIL
Image

Using Videlity:
[*]TOS: WORKING WITH 'INTERFERENCE' FLICKER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyUce8e4Apw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnvGAq_TvIw

[*]TOS+NVDI: AS ABOVE

[*]MiNT: COMPRESSED IMAGE + FLICKER (TIMING CHANGE?)
Image


I've never managed to get Videl Inside to work properly: the mode selection presents no clickable options when set to multisync for me. However in the preview system (which supports both 40 and 50MHz external clocks) similar distortion to that seen under Videlity is present using the 50MHz crystal.

I think these findings point strongly to a software issue when it comes to these artefacts. I have no idea what's going on with the 50MHz setting outside of Blowup, though. That's very strange indeed.

I'm gutted MiNT doesn't work as that makes it a no-go for me. Does anyone have an experience with Blowup and Mint?

Regards,

BW.
Last edited by Badwolf on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dhedberg » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:38 pm

Videlity results look like bus overload to me, i.e., you're pushing the data bus of the Falcon030 too hard.
That's why you get less distortion/flicker when switching to the 40MHz oscillator as it will make the video chip use less of the bus bandwidth.

Why this happens in Videlity and not in BlowUp is most likely because the video mode parameters are different. There's more to it than just the x and y resolution and number of colors. Try tweaking the upper/lower/left/right blank, vsync and hsync parameters and you should be able to achieve the same resolutions with Videlity as with BlowUp without any interference/distortion, unless the Videlity software has some serious bugs.

BTW, I wasn't able to view the youtube videos? No videos were found. Incorrect links?
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dbsys » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:57 pm

dhedberg wrote:
BTW, I wasn't able to view the youtube videos? No videos were found. Incorrect links?


Try these links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyUce8e4Apw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnvGAq_TvIw

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby leech » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:23 pm

Badwolf wrote:I'm gutted MiNT doesn't work as that makes it a no-go for me. Does anyone have an experience with Blowup and Mint?

Regards,

BW.


Are you loading BlowUP / Videlity at the end of everything else? I know in the instructions for BlowUP it said to run it after everything else in your auto folder.

I need to test it in MiNT still myself, I managed to get an 800x600x256 going, but I still need to fix some things in my MiNT setup.
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby ctirad » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:55 pm

If I recall correctly, under Mint you have to start videlity.prg after mint from the mint.cnf script file.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:23 am

dhedberg wrote:Videlity results look like bus overload to me, i.e., you're pushing the data bus of the Falcon030 too hard.
That's why you get less distortion/flicker when switching to the 40MHz oscillator as it will make the video chip use less of the bus bandwidth.

Why this happens in Videlity and not in BlowUp is most likely because the video mode parameters are different. There's more to it than just the x and y resolution and number of colors. Try tweaking the upper/lower/left/right blank, vsync and hsync parameters and you should be able to achieve the same resolutions with Videlity as with BlowUp without any interference/distortion, unless the Videlity software has some serious bugs.


This is after a fair amount of tweaking of the blanking numbers to centre the image and get it to fit on the page. I've not been able to get any combination to not flicker yet. Will keep trying, though. Thanks.

BTW, I wasn't able to view the youtube videos? No videos were found. Incorrect links?


Sorry, I posted the 'edit' rather than 'view' links. I've corrected them now.

Regards,

BW.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:25 am

leech wrote:Are you loading BlowUP / Videlity at the end of everything else? I know in the instructions for BlowUP it said to run it after everything else in your auto folder.

I need to test it in MiNT still myself, I managed to get an 800x600x256 going, but I still need to fix some things in my MiNT setup.


Yep, they're the very last thing in the auto folder.

I haven't tried running them from mint.cnf, though (or maybe even xaees.cnf?). That might be a sensible next step.

Thanks,

BW.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby dhedberg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:33 am

Badwolf wrote:
dhedberg wrote:Videlity results look like bus overload to me, i.e., you're pushing the data bus of the Falcon030 too hard.
That's why you get less distortion/flicker when switching to the 40MHz oscillator as it will make the video chip use less of the bus bandwidth.

Why this happens in Videlity and not in BlowUp is most likely because the video mode parameters are different. There's more to it than just the x and y resolution and number of colors. Try tweaking the upper/lower/left/right blank, vsync and hsync parameters and you should be able to achieve the same resolutions with Videlity as with BlowUp without any interference/distortion, unless the Videlity software has some serious bugs.

This is after a fair amount of tweaking of the blanking numbers to centre the image and get it to fit on the page. I've not been able to get any combination to not flicker yet. Will keep trying, though. Thanks.

I had a quick look at Videlity and I found it much harder (compared to BlowUp) to configure video modes without bus overload issues (flickering/distortion)... I don't know what Videlity does differently?
I'll need to have a second go at it though. I just played around with it for a couple of minutes.
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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby trecool » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:36 am

I can confirm that videlity.prg has to be called from mint.cfg file.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:52 am

Has anyone had any luck with Videl Inside? I really like the interface and find it rather intuitive plus it can also take a variable external clock parameter to help you get the rates right.

My issue with it is that when selecting multisync, no modes then show up in the resolution changing program once you've exited the configuration system!

BW.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby mzry » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Could some monitor genius please post some config settings for the 40mhz version?

These 50mhz ones don't work with 40mhz:
MS 1024 768 0 2 1216 64 128 244 790 18 772 2 1 50.000000
MS 1024 768 0 2 1216 52 140 244 790 18 772 2 4 50.000000

I don't understand monitor technology enough. I need to use 40mhz because I'm getting bus errors on 50mhz since my bus isn't accelerated.

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Re: VGA adapter with Blow Up and VGA/RGB switch

Postby Badwolf » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:04 pm

@mzry: I'll see if I can get you some widescreen modelines for 40MHz tonight, if that helps?

Was playing around with this all last night. Alas no joy. Blowup simply refuses to co-operate with Xaaes no matter how it's started. Videlity works at 40MHz with Xaaes but has this strange blinking problem illustrated in the videos. Can't cope with that, I'm afraid! Videlity and (and Videl Inside) simply refuse to work at 50MHz on an unaccelerated Falcon even in 2 colour mode.

I'm back to my 32MHz internal for now. I love the adapter, thanks Daniel, but I can't find a combination that works for me software-wise.

BW.


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