Questions about ATW800 hdd install

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Robson
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Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:54 am

First of all I have to tell I'm totally new to this piece of hw.

My transputer have helios 1.1 and X11 installed and I wanted to give 1.3 and 1.31 a go but wanted to do the easiest possible way, which is downloading a package and transfer it over to the hard drive, BUT running into all sorts of problems:

Other devices:
- Gotek with hxc
- new 40 MB scsi
- parcpusb for transfer

1. When I format the drive on the transputer using it's own software (MSCSIFMT.PRG), the GEM particion is not enough to store the downloaded distribution which is around 34MB. The software only allows you to create a 15.9MB GEM partition (on a 40MB drive) and the rest goes to helios. The pre configured partition schemes are also not good for this.
DSC08498_sm.jpg


Also tried just to install a minimum configuration of the 1.3 system (which works fine) but of course when I copy the X11 installer and try using loadpac I run out of space again, it says it needs 30+MB space to install.
DSC08489_sm.jpg


2. On "Ram's totally unofficial" website there is a note that hdd can be formatted in a TT but this case no helios partition available, ok, using hddriver I made only one partition on my TT and it works as it should (with lowest TOS compatibility). But the ATW doesn't see it. If I load the morpheus driver (scsi.prg) it recognises and briefly I can see the size too but on desktop it's not available (Option/install Disk drive is greyed out even after runnign scsi.prg).

3. I also tried just to copy the 1.3 system files over the existing 1.1 wich kind of works but messes up the Xwindow system. Maybe this is the way forward but need to figure out what paths/files are not to overwrite for this.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Last edited by Robson on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby alexh » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:50 am

The formatting utility that comes with the 1.1 distribution is buggy and will corrupt your drive due to data wraparound. Try to format using the utility that comes with the 1.2 distribution

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:02 am

I'll try the partitioning tools from the awt-extra.zip as well (http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer/helios.htm), however I don't see any corruption, the drive is usable, the maximum available size of drive C is the problem.

When formatting on the TT this also doesn't apply. But the ATW simply doesn't see it.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby alexh » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:03 am

What are SCSIFMT.RSC and SCSICAP? Are they the partition layout?

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:07 am

Might be, I don't know. I can have a look...these sorts of ideas I'm after :).
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:31 am

scsicap is the configurator file as it looks:

# SCSI Hard disk format and partition configuration file.
# October 88, Perhelion / lmd - Atari Corp.

#
# Global parameters:
# ms#count Maximum partition size in sectors (***DON'T CHANGE***)
#
:@@=Parameters:ms#32767:

#
# Format parameters:
# 'mn' entries (default values in [brackets]):
# mn=name appears in menu, name of format parms
# hd#count number of heads [4]
# cy#count number of cylinders [612]
# lz#n landing zone [4]
# rt#n seek rate code [2]
# in#n interleave factor [1]
# rw#cylno reduced-write current cylinder [cy + 1]
# wp#cylno write precomp cylinder [cy + 1]
# pt=name name of default partition to use [4-6-10]
# sp#count number of sectors/track [17]
# gs#truth generic scsi - use ONLY if generic type drive TRUE = 1
# drive controller will then use its factory defaults
#
Generic 20 Mb :mn=Std 20Mb:hd#2:cy#752:sp#26:gs#1:
Generic 40 Mb :mn=Std 40Mb:hd#4:cy#752:sp#26:gs#1:
Generic 80 Mb :mn=Std 80Mb:hd#8:cy#752:sp#26:gs#1:
Generic 100 Mb :mn=Std100Mb:hd#10:cy#752:sp#26:gs#1:
150 Mb MaxTor :mn=Maxtor:hd#7:cy#1224:sp#36:gs#1:
#20 Mb Epson/Adaptec :mn=Epson:hd#4:cy#611:sp#17:
#150 Mb MaxTor :mn=Maxtor:hd#7:cy#1224:sp#36:

#
# Partition selections
# 'pr' entries ('N' is '0', '1', '2', or '3'):
# pr=name name of partition
# pN#size size of partition N in bytes [0]
# fN#number flag byte for partition N [0 if no pN, 1 otherwise]
# iN=ccc id bytes for partition N [GEM]
#
# Numbers are in bytes; may be followed by 'k' (x1024) or 'm' (megabytes).
#
:pr=4-6-10:p0#4424k:p1#6m:p2#10m:
:pr=10-10:p0#10404k:p1#10404k:
:pr=16-4:p0#16383k:p1#4425k:
:pr=4-16:p1#16383k:p0#4425k:
:pr=5-5-10:p2#10568k:p0#5m:p1#5m:
:pr=5-10-5:p0#5m:p1#10568k:p2#5m:
:pr=10-5-5:p0#10568k:p1#5m:p2#5m:
:pr=5-5-5-5:p0#5448k:p1#5m:p2#5m:p3#5m:
:pr=10:p0#10m:
:pr=5-5:p0#5m:p1#5m:
:pr=A-A-A-A:p0#10m:p1#10m:p2#10m:p3#10m:
:pr=F-F-F-F:p0#16m:p1#16m:p2#16m:p3#16m:
:pr=16-16-8:p0#16m:p1#16m:p2#8m:
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:33 am

The ATW has a ACSI and a SCSI with DMA Connector on the Board, right ?

And the SCSI Format program is only for the SCSI Bus and not for the ACSI Bus ...
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:40 am

frank.lukas wrote:The ATW has a ACSI and a SCSI with DMA Connector on the Board, right ?

And the SCSI Format program is only for the SCSI Bus and not for the ACSI Bus ...


Yes. acsi on the back panel, scsi on board.

http://atw800.complicated.net/images/atw_subsys.jpg
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby spiny » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:16 am

I can't offer any advice, but I think these transputers are really cool :) Can't wait to see it up and running

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:24 am

spiny wrote:I can't offer any advice, but I think these transputers are really cool :) Can't wait to see it up and running


Will do more videos of course just wanted to do this update. I have a 100MB scsi on the way unfortunately other drives are not available around me at the moment than a 40MB. With the 100MB drive I might be able to push the gem partition above the required and just go from there. I sold my scsi2sd too...that would be handy now for tests. It's a learning curve for me now.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby alexh » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:05 pm

#
# Global parameters:
# ms#count Maximum partition size in sectors (***DON'T CHANGE***)
#
:@@=Parameters:ms#32767:

32768 sectors * 512 bytes/sector = 16Mbytes

Is there a later version of SCSICAP on later releases? With a bigger value for this parameter?

If this files really is used during formatting and partitioning I don't think even a bigger hard drive will allow you to make partitions greater than 16Mbytes

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby RealLarry » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:48 pm

In addition to that, the page http://atw800.complicated.net/index.html might have some useful informations for you.
On the other side of the screen, it all looks so easy.

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:57 pm

I modified the parameter to 71680, that now allows 35MB, but after hitting OK, it'll still give me a Partition too big error.

DSC08499_sm.jpg

DSC08501_sm.jpg
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:58 pm

RealLarry wrote:In addition to that, the page http://atw800.complicated.net/index.html might have some useful informations for you.

Thanks I know this one too.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:56 pm

Getting somewhere now......by modifiying the boot disk (adding scsi.prg into AUTO) the TT formatted drive is now appears on desktop with the full capacity.

Next: Copying the files across.

DSC08506_sm.jpg


PS: Sorry about stupid angles, trying to get everything done on 1m2.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby 1st1 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:17 pm

Isn't the SCSI chip on the ST-board in ATW the same as in TT? Shouldn't it work with AHDI 6?
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby frank.lukas » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:35 am

The SCSI Chip is a Logic 5380 ...
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby alexh » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:30 am

Any news?

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby frank.lukas » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:52 am

1st1 wrote:Isn't the SCSI chip on the ST-board in ATW the same as in TT? Shouldn't it work with AHDI 6?


I think a normal Atari TOS HDD Driver Software will not work. Atari give a special Software for it ...
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:36 pm

Frank's right, no other scsi drivers work.

Alex: not much to report, unfortunately I failed to install the 100MB drive for some reason. Formats fine on the TT but the ATW doesn't see it at boot. This drive has a switch for scsi id and parity to enable (NEC D3856) and terminators are present. Tried various settings but no luck so far. scsi driver hangs when booting, no drive detected.

The spare ST157N works fine and pops up when loading scsi.prg from auto.

I tried also a 365MB scsi (quantum lightning) but this one is a failure so far too: using hddriver on the TT it detects the drive, I can partition it, then when restart after partitioning, it says no partitions found right at next boot. Drive terminators are missing but maybe it's a parity error? Since no partitions, the ATW wont' see anything either, however the name of this one pops up when loading the scsi driver. So I assume it'll work if the problem with partitions is fixed.

I'd be happy just to use one of the bigger ones but also to solve these riddles, I'm not sure why is this happening and need more time to spend.....

Suggestions?
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Bama » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:46 pm

Robson wrote:Frank's right, no other scsi drivers work.

Alex: not much to report, unfortunately I failed to install the 100MB drive for some reason. Formats fine on the TT but the ATW doesn't see it at boot. This drive has a switch for scsi id and parity to enable (NEC D3856) and terminators are present. Tried various settings but no luck so far. scsi driver hangs when booting, no drive detected.

The spare ST157N works fine and pops up when loading scsi.prg from auto.

I tried also a 365MB scsi (quantum lightning) but this one is a failure so far too: using hddriver on the TT it detects the drive, I can partition it, then when restart after partitioning, it says no partitions found right at next boot. Drive terminators are missing but maybe it's a parity error? Since no partitions, the ATW wont' see anything either, however the name of this one pops up when loading the scsi driver. So I assume it'll work if the problem with partitions is fixed.

I'd be happy just to use one of the bigger ones but also to solve these riddles, I'm not sure why is this happening and need more time to spend.....

Suggestions?


I just want to say I appreciate that you are sharing this with us. I'm certain this is frustrating, that being said, I'm envious of your opportunity to own and "wrestle with" an ATW800!!

:cheers:
:-)
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:55 pm

Bama wrote:
I just want to say I appreciate that you are sharing this with us. I'm certain this is frustrating, that being said, I'm envious of your opportunity to own and "wrestle with" an ATW800!!

:cheers:


Thanks.
The problem is time and space at this stage (and probably experience as well) but you're right I wish this could be the biggest problem I ever have to deal with. I'll get there I'm sure.
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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby alexh » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:29 pm

If you ever wanted help researching this I'm a big ATW fan and would like to help.

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Rustynutt » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Is there a relationship between the OEM MSTE SCSI add on card and the card on the ATW? I don't know the chip sets used off hand.

The MSTE Atari card gave me fits.....

Did I send you this card a while back? If so, it was purchased from "czmusicteacher", which I believe is Frank, some years ago :)

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Re: Questions about ATW800 hdd install

Postby Robson » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:40 pm

I definitely made progress since last post here but I need to refresh my memory where was I when stopped.
I had 1.3 running but not without issues as far as I remember.

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