Here is a list of all Falcon caps

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Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:25 am

Hey guys,

I just successfully re-capp'd my Falcon mobo and thought it would be helpful for others to list all the original caps:

1 x 4700uf 16v
1 x 470uf 35v
3 x 220uf 16v
4 x 100uf 16v
5 x 47uf 16v
3x 10uf 50v
3 x 1uf 50v
2 x 4.7uf 25v
1 x 22uf 16v
1 x 3.3uf 50v
1 x 2.2uf 50v

Here is a list of modern replacements I used from element14 (missing 22uf, 3.3uf and 2.2uf as I replaced them later)

x1
EEUFR1C472B Capacitance:4700µF; Voltage Rating:16V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:16mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:7.5mm; Height: 1907228
x1
EEUFR1V471B Capacitance:470µF; Voltage Rating:35V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:10mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:5mm; Height:16mm 1907229
x3
EEU-FR1C221 Capacitance:220µF; Voltage Rating:16V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:6.3mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:2.5mm; Height:1 1907234
x4
EEUFR1C101 Capacitance:100µF; Voltage Rating:16V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:5mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:2mm; Height:11mm; 2217568
x5
EEUFR1E470B Capacitance:47µF; Voltage Rating:25V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:5mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:2mm; Height:11mm; Op 2284396
x3
EEUFR1H100 Capacitance:10µF; Voltage Rating:50V; Product Range:FR Series; Capacitance Tolerance:± 20%; Capacitor Terminals:Radial Leaded; Diameter:5mm; Packaging:Each; Lead Spacing:2mm; Height:11mm; O
x3
ECQ-E1105KF Capacitance:1µF; Capacitor Dielectric Type:PET (Polyester); Voltage Rating:100VDC; Product Range:ECQE(F) Series; Capacitance Tolerance: 10%; Capaci 49W0218 1800647
x2
ECQ-E1475JF Capacitance:4.7 F; Capacitor Dielectric Type:PET (Polyester); Voltage Rating:100V; Product Range:ECQE(F) Series; Capacitance Tolerance: 5%; Capacitor Terminal 49W0659 1800666


Obviously none of these are Axial like the originals due to Radial being the most available and high quality. I did need to do some special capacitor Gymnastics in certain areas to make them fit, but as long as you are careful all is fine. I replaced anything under 10uf with polyester film caps as recommended by Chris from exxos.

Ta,

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:11 am

Thanks for the list. I'm wondering how many of you guys have replaced the capacitors in your Falcon030? Did you do so because the computer was not working properly or just for the heck of it?
So far I have not replaced any capacitors (except for the PSU) and had no problems. Is it worth the trouble?
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:26 am

dhedberg wrote:Thanks for the list. I'm wondering how many of you guys have replaced the capacitors in your Falcon030? Did you do so because the computer was not working properly or just for the heck of it?
So far I have not replaced any capacitors (except for the PSU) and had no problems. Is it worth the trouble?


Well AFAIK I haven't seen any threads about cap replacements. I did all of my own re-cap without any guides, but with some advice from Exxos. The reason I did it was this: Capacitors main job is to smooth out voltage for circuits and IC's, after 20 years electrolytic caps even if they're not blown will not be performing to their original spec because they dry up. When I finally got my Falcon that I had dreamed about since I was a child, my first plan was to do the PSU cap replacement, then the mobo cap replacement. This way I can guarantee that all the IC's on the board are being fed beautiful smooth voltage and will lengthen the life of the machine. Imagine if you had some bad aging caps in your board, slowely frying your chips? I hate to think about it :)

Anyway I hope my possibly paranoid explanation helps.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:29 am

By the way: It isn't the easiest job. A lot of the caps are soldered on to the main copper earth which makes them very difficult to remove. With enough heat, solder and flux you can do it safely. Just make sure you have good tools, a good station that you can adjust the temperature, some solder-absorb-wire that absorbs the solder rather than using a solder sucker etc etc. I did a lot of research about the best tools to use before I took on this project.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dml » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:58 am

mzry wrote:Obviously none of these are Axial like the originals due to Radial being the most available and high quality. I did need to do some special capacitor Gymnastics in certain areas to make them fit, but as long as you are careful all is fine.


I had the same 'fun' while re-capping my own board. I found a low-ESR replacement for the big 4700uF cap which approximated the original in size (nearly) but was radial package - and had to construct a weird 'bridge' to install it in the same position.

mzry wrote:By the way: It isn't the easiest job. A lot of the caps are soldered on to the main copper earth which makes them very difficult to remove. With enough heat, solder and flux you can do it safely. Just make sure you have good tools, a good station that you can adjust the temperature, some solder-absorb-wire that absorbs the solder rather than using a solder sucker etc etc. I did a lot of research about the best tools to use before I took on this project.


Yep it definitely is painful working on that board! Had the same trouble removing the NVRAM a few years eariler - attached to a fat ground plane...

I tried the hot-air station at one point and that didn't work too well either. The board seems to start cooking before the groundplane gets hot enough to let go of the solder :-/ Giant 80W soldering iron for *very* short periods of time did the job though... YMMV.

D

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby rj1 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:36 pm

mzry wrote:By the way: It isn't the easiest job. A lot of the caps are soldered on to the main copper earth which makes them very difficult to remove. With enough heat, solder and flux you can do it safely. Just make sure you have good tools, a good station that you can adjust the temperature, some solder-absorb-wire that absorbs the solder rather than using a solder sucker etc etc. I did a lot of research about the best tools to use before I took on this project.


For the radials, you can simply cut out old ones close to the capacitor body or a bit further where the "knee" is and solder new ones onto remaining legs.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby trecool » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:36 pm

Nice list!
Where do you find quality capacitors these days... maybe thats another kit for exxos to sell "Full falcon modo recap kit":)

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby catmando » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:47 pm

trecool wrote:Nice list!
Where do you find quality capacitors these days... maybe thats another kit for exxos to sell "Full falcon modo recap kit":)


+1 for Exxos Falcon cap kit
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:42 am

Exxos won't make a cap replacement kit because the parts change all the time due to availability. He'd be constantly checking / revising (he told me this)

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby exxos » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:07 am

If enough people want the kit, I can put one together, though you are right though, I can literally spend a whole day choosing capacitors, sometimes longer. Anyone who has properly looked for caps will understand how time consuming it is. Plus every other kit I sell has capacitors and each time I do a run on something, I end up going through 100's of datasheets to find a alternative capacitor. Mostly I have been buying some cap's in bulk as I am getting tired of them being discontinued by farnell or the manufacturer. It's why I don't list capacitors on my site for the PSU's anymore, keeping on top of all the part numbers is hard enough, without having to keep updating my site as well.

I think what is a good idea to look into is the Axial capacitors problem. Its a problem with ST/E/Falcon and other machines. Just can't get them easily, and the spec of them is so bad it makes it almost pointless changing them for a new Axial. As people know, bodging in a Radial, is the only way to go.

A small thought I had was to create a small PCB and use several smaller radial caps to make up the value. Then the PCB pins will fit in the Axial holes easily. I'm not sure if it will be possible due to height restrictions in machines like the STFM. Though also the cap ESR value has to be equal or better than a larger one which can be tricky.

Worst case I think the 1500uF caps even though they are about 25mm long, no longer than the Axial , 2 of those would be 3,000uF. Even though the value is lower than the 4,700uF on the boards, the ESR rating of a new cap bank will still make the capacitor have better regulation despite a lower value.

I'm just throwing some thoughts about here. I still have to finish the Falcon PSU's yet and the Falcon RAM boards, but after those projects are done I may have more time to look into putting together motherboard re-cap kits. I think a good kit for the Falcon is a good idea though. As suggested already, the Falcons are like 20 years old now. I did the PSU re-cap kit as I saw huge spikes in the PSU regulation, imagine 10V spiking to every chip on the board 10,000 times a second. Falcons are not cheap , so looking after them is the way to go.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:10 pm

^ And adding to what Chris said, if you want to get caps now you can use my list as they are 100% guaranteed to work as I have them in my machine.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:42 pm

mzry wrote:^ And adding to what Chris said, if you want to get caps now you can use my list as they are 100% guaranteed to work as I have them in my machine.

Can you please post a picture of your Falcon030 board with the new capacitors in place? It would interesting to see how you positioned them all. Thanks!

BTW, I checked my Falcon030 and C-Lab MK-II and I found a total of 29 electrolyte capacitors on the main boards, 28 axial and 1 radial. Your list contains only 25.
I can't read the values for C1, C2, C50, C84, C138, C121, and C181. Otherwise I would publish my list. Anyone who can read the values for those capacitors?
Last edited by dhedberg on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:54 pm

exxos wrote:I think what is a good idea to look into is the Axial capacitors problem. Its a problem with ST/E/Falcon and other machines. Just can't get them easily, and the spec of them is so bad it makes it almost pointless changing them for a new Axial. As people know, bodging in a Radial, is the only way to go.

Well, I'm looking into buying some Vishay axial capacitors (120 ATC series) from Farnell. Specs seems good but the price is a bit ridiculous. What makes me confused is why Atari has put in capacitors rated higher than 16V on the main board as the PSU only supplies 5V and 12V. There are a few 25V, 35V and 50V capacitors. Maybe the price was lower for these versions at the time? I assume it would be OK to replace all capacitor with 16V ones. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited by dhedberg on Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby exxos » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:29 pm

dhedberg wrote:Well, I'm looking into buying some Vishay axial capacitor (120 ATC series) from Farnell. Specs seems good but the price is a bit ridiculous.


Yeah the price is silly of axial ones. The spec of that series seems good in fact. Likely not as popular for mass produced items these days as they take up to much PCB space, so they don't sell as many, price goes up.

dhedberg wrote:What makes me confused is why Atari has put in capacitors rated higher than 16V on the main board as the PSU only supplies 5V and 12V. There are a few 25V, 35V and 50V capacitors. Maybe the price was lower for these versions at the time?


Its not unusual to see that (even today) , finding 1uF 50V caps for example and not finding any lower voltages (ive not checked on that, its just a example). Likely physical larger caps and higher voltages are easier to make than smaller more compact caps with lower voltage ratings. 1uF 50V is pretty tiny anyway. Upping to 2.2uF and lowering voltage to 25V is likely still the same physical size, probably saves on production costs.

dhedberg wrote: I assume it would be OK to replace all capacitor with 16V ones.


I've only had a quick look at the falcon schematics, Most seem to be audio related caps running on 9V. 12V is the highest voltage on the PSU, so 16-25V is the normal there. To be sure you should probably power up the falcon and see what voltage is across each cap, though I doubt you will see much more than 5V on most caps, unless it's on the video side which runs from 12V.

With a little headroom I would try and go for 25V if possible. Though of course if they are on the MB lower voltage than that, then no need for 25V unless they work out cheaper and physically fit. Higher voltage caps do also tend to have better ESR ratings (likely will be slightly larger as well) , so worth double checking on all that also.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:50 am

mzry wrote:
dhedberg wrote:
mzry wrote:^ And adding to what Chris said, if you want to get caps now you can use my list as they are 100% guaranteed to work as I have them in my machine.

Can you please post a picture of your Falcon030 board with the new capacitors in place? It would interesting to see how you positioned them all. Thanks!

BTW, I checked my Falcon030 and C-Lab MK-II and I found a total of 29 electrolyte capacitors on the main boards, 28 axial and 1 radial. Your list contains only 25.
I can't read the values for C1, C2, C50, C84, C138, C121, and C181. Otherwise I would publish my list. Anyone who can read the values for those capacitors?



Heres a pretty good photo:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vqg ... kkyQVYzc0k

Most of the difficult gymnastics were done with the film caps I used near the rear underneath the PSU. Everything else fitted quite easily. I probably would use electrolytes instead of film if I did it again, because they are so large.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby rj1 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:35 am

rj1 wrote:
mzry wrote:By the way: It isn't the easiest job. A lot of the caps are soldered on to the main copper earth which makes them very difficult to remove. With enough heat, solder and flux you can do it safely. Just make sure you have good tools, a good station that you can adjust the temperature, some solder-absorb-wire that absorbs the solder rather than using a solder sucker etc etc. I did a lot of research about the best tools to use before I took on this project.


For the radials, you can simply cut out old ones close to the capacitor body or a bit further where the "knee" is and solder new ones onto remaining legs.


Of course I meant this for axial type, not radial...

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:00 am

exxos wrote:
dhedberg wrote:I assume it would be OK to replace all capacitor with 16V ones.

I've only had a quick look at the falcon schematics, Most seem to be audio related caps running on 9V. 12V is the highest voltage on the PSU, so 16-25V is the normal there. To be sure you should probably power up the falcon and see what voltage is across each cap, though I doubt you will see much more than 5V on most caps, unless it's on the video side which runs from 12V.

With a little headroom I would try and go for 25V if possible. Though of course if they are on the MB lower voltage than that, then no need for 25V unless they work out cheaper and physically fit. Higher voltage caps do also tend to have better ESR ratings (likely will be slightly larger as well) , so worth double checking on all that also.

I ended up ordering capacitors with the same voltage ratings as the original ones. No real price difference. A smaller physical size would have been nice of course, but the smaller physical size and lower voltage had quite an impact on the ESR, impedance, and ripple current.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:07 am

mzry wrote:
dhedberg wrote:Can you please post a picture of your Falcon030 board with the new capacitors in place? It would interesting to see how you positioned them all. Thanks!

BTW, I checked my Falcon030 and C-Lab MK-II and I found a total of 29 electrolyte capacitors on the main boards, 28 axial and 1 radial. Your list contains only 25.
I can't read the values for C1, C2, C50, C84, C138, C121, and C181. Otherwise I would publish my list. Anyone who can read the values for those capacitors?

Heres a pretty good photo:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vqg ... kkyQVYzc0k

Most of the difficult gymnastics were done with the film caps I used near the rear underneath the PSU. Everything else fitted quite easily. I probably would use electrolytes instead of film if I did it again, because they are so large.

Thanks! Looks great! I noticed that the 4.7uF film capacitors seem to be the hardest to fit so I decided to go with electrolytes for the 4.7uF capacitors as well. Everything under 4.7uF will be film capacitors though.
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby mzry » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:33 am

dhedberg wrote:Thanks for the list. I'm wondering how many of you guys have replaced the capacitors in your Falcon030? Did you do so because the computer was not working properly or just for the heck of it?
So far I have not replaced any capacitors (except for the PSU) and had no problems. Is it worth the trouble?


Just thought I'd add this: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/qu ... shelf-life

Electrolytic caps actually have a shelf life, so they disintegrate even quicker when not in use. My Falcon was kept in storage for 10 years by the previous owner... So that's already a great reason to recap.

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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby dhedberg » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:55 am

In case it would be useful for anyone else, here's the complete list of the original electrolytic capacitors (29 of them) that I replaced on the motherboard of my Atari Falcon030 (PAL version).

Code: Select all

Name   Voltage Capacitance Location
-----------------------------------
C1     16V     22uF        Under PSU
C2     25V     4.7uF       Under PSU
C6     25V     4.7uF       Under PSU
C7     50V     1uF         Under PSU
C11    25V     4.7uF       Under PSU
C29    16V     100uF       Under PSU
C67    16V     47uF        Under PSU
C110   16V     100uF       Mid section
C147   16V     4700uF      Mid section
C181   50V     1uF         Mid section
C117   6.3V    220uF       Near Floppy cable
C24    35V     470uF       Video section
C36    16V     100uF       Video section
C48    50V     1uF         Video section
-      50V     10uF        Video section
C50    16V     100uF       Video section
C54    16V     47uF        Near SCSI port
C78    50V     2.2uF       Near SCSI port
C56    16V     47uF        Under Floppy Drive
C57    16V     220uF       Under Floppy Drive
C83    16V     47uF        Under Floppy Drive
C84    16V     47uF        Under Floppy Drive
C88    50V     10uF        Under Floppy Drive
C91    50V     10uF        Under Floppy Drive
C92    50V     3.3uF       Under Floppy Drive
C121   16V     220uF       Under Floppy Drive
C127   50V     3.3uF       Under Floppy Drive
C138   16V     47uF        Under Floppy Drive
C141   50V     10uF        Under Floppy Drive
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Re: Here is a list of all Falcon caps

Postby JustinPayne » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:49 am

Thanks to all that provided the cap list. It saves me the trouble. Cheers!


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