How many Falcons were sold?

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How many Falcons were sold?

Postby LaceySnr » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:20 am

I've looked around a bit but couldn't find any information (my wife would say that's to be expected of my searching skills). How many Falcons did Atari and C-Lab manage to shift in total? Anyone have any idea?

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby DarkLord » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:49 pm

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby Mindthreat » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Not enough because I can't easily obtain one for less than a brand new, modern-day Mac Book. In all fairness though, I have owned quite a few but had to rid them typically due to shoddy financial situations and one in particular because I didn't like the side effects of one of them since I bought it modded, which is why I always prefer stock. 100k units seems like a lot actually considering the Falcon is by all means a failure in the grand scheme of things. ST Books on the other hand... :( some day, some day...
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby galax » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:19 pm

I think 100k is an overestimate. The only citation given in the other thread for the 100,000 number is "ST Format quotes Atari UK ". It may have come from ST Format 48, March 1993, pages 8 and 9, which quotes Atari UK: http://www.atarimania.com/atari-magazin ... 8_186.html

"Atari are aiming to sell up to 100,000 Falcons in the UK by Christmas as widespread advertising, distribution and importation of the Falcon finally gets under way this month. [...] If Atari succeed in achieving their projected sales of 80,000 to 100,000 Falcon sales in the UK, the software houses would be foolish to miss out on the opportunity for selling to game players."


The "widespread advertising" didn't happen, and as Atari discontinued the Falcon sometime in 1993 I don't think the sales happened either.
Last edited by galax on Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby bugs » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:36 pm

Curt Vendel could answer all questions like this.

Hopefully one day that treasure trove of information will be made available. the atari museum website has very little.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby galax » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:32 pm

bugs wrote:Curt Vendel could answer all questions like this.

Hopefully one day that treasure trove of information will be made available. the atari museum website has very little.


Maybe we'll have to wait for the book: http://ataribook.com/book/businessiswar/

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby SteveBagley » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:24 pm

It should be possible to estimate how many Falcons were sold by using the German tank problem approach (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem), from the serial numbers of surviving machines.

Over on the Stardot forums, they've successfully used it to estimate how many of the various Acorn machines were sold.

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby LaceySnr » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:10 am

That's an interesting idea Steve, maybe we should go that route. That'd probably help with the C-Lab machines too.

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby wongck » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:11 am

SteveBagley wrote:It should be possible to estimate how many Falcons were sold by using the German tank problem approach (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem), from the serial numbers of surviving machines.

Over on the Stardot forums, they've successfully used it to estimate how many of the various Acorn machines were sold.

Steve


Wow.... the article was an interesting read, especially the part where the estimate vs intelligences data vs records numbers.
May be someone with a statistic major or good in math can try this out.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby dlfrsilver » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:03 am

I got the sales numbers on a website of a french Atari Falcon fan :

France : more than 3.000 units sold

World : more than 20.000 units sold

This explains more than the words his rarity.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby christos » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:33 am

These are the numbers given by R. Czuba. But I've seen the number of 100000 in ST Format and various other numbers going around. I guess we'll find out for sure when Curt's book becomes available.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby galax » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:10 pm

christos wrote:ST Format quotes Atari UK for 100000

christos wrote:I've seen the number of 100000 in ST Format

Are you sure that wasn't an optimistic prediction of UK sales of up to 100,000 by Atari UK? See my quote above. I've never found a reference to the Falcon having actually ever sold anything like that number anywhere else other than you citing ST Format in this and the other thread. I can't see it mentioned in ST Format other than as a prediction.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby DarkLord » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:05 pm

I think the generally accepted estimate is the 20,000 + one. That seems to be the
consensus anyway.

If 100,000 units were actually produced/sold in the UK alone, surely they wouldn't
be so rare?
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby AtariCrypt » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:11 pm

DarkLord wrote:If 100,000 units were actually produced/sold in the UK alone, surely they wouldn't
be so rare?


.... and then even I would be able to afford a Falcon today! One day.... one... day! :coffe:
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby bugs » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:37 pm

If they had produced/sold 100k of them Im sure they would have stayed in the computer business a while longer. There were quotes in this very forum I cant find at the moment of Atari willing to so a production batch if an order for 3000 were made.

The 20k figures seem much more believable.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby LaceySnr » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:06 pm

20k seems believable given that they're pretty rare these days. I"m sure a bunch have been destroyed over the years, and others re-housed and then mistaken for something else. I do wonder where they all are though!

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby penguin » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:13 am

I think I posted the link either here or on another Atari forum. It's an interview with Bob Gleadow, published by ST-Computer magazine:
http://stcarchiv.de/stc1993/10/interview-atari-bob-gleadow

About 13000-14000 sold (40 percent in Germany alone), 4164 in stock.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby AtariCrypt » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:29 pm

Wow. For such a powerful and beautiful computer, that ain't a lot...
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby Mindthreat » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm

applecrypt wrote:Wow. For such a powerful and beautiful computer, that ain't a lot...


Truth be told but they basically only had it really available for sale for about a year before they completely pulled it, right? Plus, who really knew anything about the Falcon outside of a Toad Computers ad? If it weren't for the Jaguar, I would have never known Atari had even made a multi-media computer. Too bad about TOS as well... it just needed a major overhaul and there needed to be solid CD-ROM support directly from Atari from the getup but I suppose I'm veering. It's amazing machine that was barely really tapped with its true potential, which we're starting to see what it's really capable of with the goodies DML has been doing with the Quake2 stuff. :D
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby calimero » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:06 pm

I JUST FINISHED site (web database) for entering Atari serial numbers: http://milan.kovac.cc/atari/chipmunk/index.php

please use it! If we type enough serial numbers, we can make some conclusion regarding Atari computer production!
(and report any error on site if you find it!)

Thanks
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby mikro » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:07 am

Look what I have found during a random search: http://narkive.com/5wogHqwb.3

Rodolphe Czuba: Number of falcons in the world : around 10.000 to 12.000 + 1.000 to 2.000 from C-LAB after. The complete PCB product from atari corp was 20.000, but only 12.000 were assembled and put in the market pipe. The other 8.000 were sent partially or totally to C-LAB (2 big cargo airflights from Sunnyvale to Germany it was told to me !) : it is why C-LAB do not modify the PCB (even it was urgent to do it : put a SIMM socket on the mb to avoid the ram card by example !!) for MK1/2/X machines--> they have to sold the atari PCB !

So it seems I was right all along with the 12000 units limit: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24769&p=311392#p311297. Also this would explain why some PCBs from C-Lab have newer serial numbers while some older, perhaps they didn't bother replacing them.

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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby Trixster » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:24 am

And of those 10-12k, I wonder how many are still in existence and working?
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby Mindthreat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:28 pm

Trixster wrote:And of those 10-12k, I wonder how many are still in existence and working?
mikro wrote:Look what I have found during a random search: http://narkive.com/5wogHqwb.3

Rodolphe Czuba: Number of falcons in the world : around 10.000 to 12.000 + 1.000 to 2.000 from C-LAB after. The complete PCB product from atari corp was 20.000, but only 12.000 were assembled and put in the market pipe. The other 8.000 were sent partially or totally to C-LAB (2 big cargo airflights from Sunnyvale to Germany it was told to me !) : it is why C-LAB do not modify the PCB (even it was urgent to do it : put a SIMM socket on the mb to avoid the ram card by example !!) for MK1/2/X machines--> they have to sold the atari PCB !

So it seems I was right all along with the 12000 units limit: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24769&p=311392#p311297. Also this would explain why some PCBs from C-Lab have newer serial numbers while some older, perhaps they didn't bother replacing them.


Both figures seem very reasonably realistic and believable. I would expect people who purchased the C-Lab machines to have been much more caring realizing what they have and their intended application for music so outside of just general overall failure or accidents involving the complete machine being destroyed, wouldn't it be fair or safe to assume that close to 1,000 units remain? Even so, since there are multiple versions and I have no idea which sold first, it may seem like 600-800 of the MKX were sold with the rest being MK1 and then probably even fewer of them all the MK2 units.

I've probably seen about 12 general Falcons sale or listed for sale over the course of the last year, so they're out there and still retaining their high asking prices. There's been about 4 or so C-Labs sold in the last year from what I've seen.
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby catmando » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:23 pm

I've counted 32 on ebay since afew years ago but I think there were more
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Re: How many Falcons were sold?

Postby Hazzardus » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:44 pm

catmando wrote:I've counted 32 on ebay since afew years ago but I think there were more


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't know why but this made me laugh out loud and scare the cat.

Sort of unrelated, but I got my first Falcon in 1999 off eBay, paid £90 for it with a Mega ST 2 with working monochrome monitor and 3 atari mice, no keyboard with the MST though.

It all works out though, because I sold my original boxed 1040STFM with all my boxed games (over 200) + 1000+ floppies and ST format 1-46 (only missing ST Format 6) on ebay for the grand total of £14.20 in 2002. Thank god it was collection only.


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