End of EasyMINT?

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby ctirad » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:08 pm

joska wrote: Portage/emerge is a rather extreme example though, doesn't it actually compile the packages from source when installing?


That is the default behaviour, yes. But portage can create and install binary packages too. But, the problem is that portage is a python applicatioan a thus it is extremely slow even in its internal tasks like parse some package database and then print something on the screen.

Personally I find MiNT+XaAES to be an excellent way of running GEM-stuff under multitasking, and it's also a lot easier to develop software for MiNT than TOS as it offers a lot more functionality. But I'm not very fond of much of the ported unix stuff.


In ninetees I have had very polished MInt+N_AES setup on my Falcon. I used several fullscreen virtual consoles + desktop switchable via ALT+Fx keys. I used console programs for ftp, iCQ, telnet and of course many useful utilities like ping, traceroute, top, etc.. It ran smoothly on overclocked 14MB F030. Sometimes I compiled some smaller application and it was not that slow. I actaully learned lot of linux on that setup :)

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby lp » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:01 am

Debating the complexities of MiNT seems rather pointless, it can be as complex as one wants it to be. That said I don't think the author will refuse to give the sources. I had the source code at one time when he sent it to me so I could solve a mysterious compiler error. However, I deleted it as soon as the problem was resolved. I assumed since he was actively working on it he didn't want the source code floating around.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby mfro » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:27 am

lp wrote:... That said I don't think the author will refuse to give the sources...


According to the author, the EasyMint sources apparently contain copyrighted third party material and thus cannot be released to the public.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby calimero » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:55 am

I have two questions: where is download link for latest EasyMint 1.90 on http://atari.st-katharina-apotheke.de ?

how complicate is to install MiNT from http://www.freemint.org/builds/freemint/ (or: why use EasyMint at all)?


I also install MiNT using EasyMiNT long time ago and still using same OS :)
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:08 am

ctirad wrote:But, the problem is that portage is a python applicatioan...


Ouch! Yes, that would indeed be a problem.

ctirad wrote:In ninetees I have had very polished MInt+N_AES setup on my Falcon. I used several fullscreen virtual consoles + desktop switchable via ALT+Fx keys. I used console programs for ftp, iCQ, telnet and of course many useful utilities like ping, traceroute, top, etc..


Same here. I was using KGMD with vcons on my Falcon with Afterburner and graphics card. Having the consoles on one monitor and GEM on the other was great :) Something like that could pretty easily be built today, but it's not what users want. They want a package manager, and while that makes it easier for the user it also makes the setup heavier and more complex.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:17 am

calimero wrote:how complicate is to install MiNT from http://www.freemint.org/builds/freemint/ (or: why use EasyMint at all)?


Don't confuse MiNT with EasyMiNT. These are two very different things. MiNT (and XaAES) is just the basic OS. It's TOS with multitasking and networking.

EasyMiNT OTOH is something far more complex. It's MiNT+XaAES with a "unix" on top. MiNT is just a small, but vital part of it.

Installing MiNT from the daily builds is not difficult - when you know MiNT. It's a bit tedious though, you have to copy all files and folder around manually, setting up config files etc. It's not "ready to use" in any way.

Again, I suggest to try VanillaMiNT if you have a TT or Falcon030 and want to try MiNT. It's ready to go, just unpack it to your bootdrive. But it's "just" MiNT, no unix-stuff or command-line. If that's what you need then try EasyMiNT.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby vido » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:20 am

calimero wrote:I have two questions: where is download link for latest EasyMint 1.90 on http://atari.st-katharina-apotheke.de ?

At the end of this page: http://atari.st-katharina-apotheke.de/h ... e=easymint

how complicate is to install MiNT from http://www.freemint.org/builds/freemint/ (or: why use EasyMint at all)?

As I see this is just a kernel with modules etc. Enough if you want to work just in GEM.

I also install MiNT using EasyMiNT long time ago and still using same OS :)

This is probably the reason of poor response to Maanke regarding new version. You install EasyMiNT once and when it works you just update it and dont want to mess with it as it is really complex install.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:19 am

Honestly, all this does not look well, considering possibilities of further development. Most likely, will not see sources, and not even GFA Basic part sources. No e-mail contact. Seems like author don't care at all. Reminds me on someone who was active in preservation here.
Negative feedback has usually positive effect.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby lp » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:00 am

mfro wrote:According to the author, the EasyMint sources apparently contain copyrighted third party material and thus cannot be released to the public.


I forgot, yes it's built on top of faceVALUE. However, that is also in a state of non-support. Well I think he would give the sources if whoever wants to take it over agrees to keep the sources closed.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby frank.lukas » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:17 am

At the EasyMiNT Homepage in the "wichtig.txt" or the importan.txt" at the end of the Document is the eMail Address ...
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby wongck » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:50 am

calimero wrote:how complicate is to install MiNT from http://www.freemint.org/builds/freemint/ (or: why use EasyMint at all)?


Installing MINT is very easy actually. You do not need easymint, as it just copy over some files and making some text file changes.

EasyMint also install SpareMint for you... giving you tools and making it "unix-like" behaviour.
Take a look at my webpage for the stuff you need to to manually.
And EasyMint does with a few clicks for you.... and even probably some more stuff than what my webpage gives.

All at a cost.... you will have SpareMint, the unix-like stuff on your Atari but you probably having no idea what was done, cannot configure it and likely cannot troubleshoot it if something goes wrong.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby calimero » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:18 pm

wongck wrote:All at a cost.... you will have SpareMint, the unix-like stuff on your Atari but you probably having no idea what was done, cannot configure it and likely cannot troubleshoot it if something goes wrong.

pretty much true.

but easymint help me to have working os quite easy (and fast) and your page later help me a lot with troubleshooting :)
thanks for answers.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:17 am

wongck wrote:All at a cost.... you will have SpareMint, the unix-like stuff on your Atari but you probably having no idea what was done, cannot configure it and likely cannot troubleshoot it if something goes wrong.


I disagree. One of the big complaints about MiNT and MiNT-based unix-setups since the beginning (since the first MiNT vs MagiC flamewar on c.s.a.s atleast) has been it's complexity and how difficult it is to set up. True, you learn more quickly if you set it up yourself. But very few will do that. EasyMiNT has made it possible for anyone to use such a setup. If they like it, they will learn how to maintain it. I'm sure that without EasyMiNT there would have been virtually no SpareMiNT users today.

I remember my first Slackware installation from 1994. I doubt that there would be many desktop Linux users today if distros like Ubuntu had not appeared :)
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby calimero » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:26 am

joska wrote:
wongck wrote:EasyMiNT has made it possible for anyone to use such a setup. If they like it, they will learn how to maintain it. I'm sure that without EasyMiNT there would have been virtually no SpareMiNT users today.

I remember my first Slackware installation from 1994. I doubt that there would be many desktop Linux users today if distros like Ubuntu had not appeared :)

this is exactly my case: I would probably never install SpareMiNT (MiNT with unix tools) without EasyMiNT and I would probably stop using it without wongck tutorials :) (and this forum ;))

I even think that FreeMiNT by default come with unix support since it came with EasyMiNT :D
Last edited by calimero on Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby shoggoth » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:06 am

EasyMiNT is a highly underrated achievement and is just as important as its source distro (SpareMiNT) and the kernel/AES.

If it wasn't for easymint, I would never have returned to this platform.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby vido » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:15 am

calimero wrote:I even think that FreeMiNT by default come with unix support since it came with EasyMiNT :D

First full unix MiNT distribution "easy" to install was KGMD. As I remember it was very popular those days and very important stepstone in MiNTs life.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby vido » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:16 am

shoggoth wrote:EasyMiNT is a highly underrated achievement and is just as important as its source distro (SpareMiNT) and the kernel/AES.

If it wasn't for easymint, I would never have returned to this platform.

Kehr for president.

:cheers:
Without KGMD and EasyMiNT I would leave Atari platform a long time ago.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby wongck » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:59 pm

joska wrote:
wongck wrote:All at a cost.... you will have SpareMint, the unix-like stuff on your Atari but you probably having no idea what was done, cannot configure it and likely cannot troubleshoot it if something goes wrong.


I disagree. One of the big complaints about MiNT and MiNT-based unix-setups since the beginning (since the first MiNT vs MagiC flamewar on c.s.a.s atleast) has been it's complexity and how difficult it is to set up. True, you learn more quickly if you set it up yourself. But very few will do that. EasyMiNT has made it possible for anyone to use such a setup. If they like it, they will learn how to maintain it. I'm sure that without EasyMiNT there would have been virtually no SpareMiNT users today.

I remember my first Slackware installation from 1994. I doubt that there would be many desktop Linux users today if distros like Ubuntu had not appeared :)


LOL... no flames war I am too old for those time wasters.

You misunderstood., I mean when the users gets it first running... of course with time the user will learn to maintain it, if they are interested.
Just like MicroSlop eventually learning that they cannot force their users to not use the start button on a desktop..... :roll:

And I agree that without EasyMint, SpareMint will have virtually no users now.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby KLund1 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:10 am

He mentioned ;
" But the website will be still online for now."
It all should be backed-up here, there, somewhere, just in case. . . . . . . . :(
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby mikro » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:28 pm

shoggoth wrote:EasyMiNT is a highly underrated achievement and is just as important as its source distro (SpareMiNT) and the kernel/AES.

So true. Someone has mentioned KGMD and stuff. For me, that was *exactly* the thing I wanted to avoid, even a description of that looked horrible, I had never tried it at all!

And then one day I saw this easymint installer and that was it! I think I'm still the only Slovak registered user on the website :D

I was in touch with M.A. several times, his biggest concern was always lack of support/feedback and lack of time lately. So when he came to the ML, he asked some "difficult" question (like what needs to be done to update / recompile the RPMs), nobody could answer him. Plus, as we know, feedback is not exactly the strongest point of the Atari community, so he's just given up.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby shoggoth » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:38 am

mikro wrote:And then one day I saw this easymint installer and that was it! I think I'm still the only Slovak registered user on the website :D


It's been a huge contribution to me personally and professionally; it gave me the right environment to pick up programming again, which in turn made me change my career, go to the university, get better jobs, and in the end found a new business together with some friends. M.A. turned this impossible manual installation task into clicking "next", "next", "ENERGIZE!". Boom - instant productivity.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:58 am

mikro wrote:So true. Someone has mentioned KGMD and stuff. For me, that was *exactly* the thing I wanted to avoid, even a description of that looked horrible, I had never tried it at all!


Well, I *did* try it (and used it for years) and installation was actually quite easy. The big difference between KGMD and EasyMiNT is the package management in EasyMiNT. But getting started with KGMD was not difficult at all.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby shoggoth » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:09 am

What about MiNT'98? I've never tried it, but rumours say it's good stuff too (albeit a bit outdated).
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby frank.lukas » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:19 am

The AdMinTool from MiNT´98 is great stuff -> viewtopic.php?t=26226

The source are on the Web somewhere ...
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:20 am

shoggoth wrote:What about MiNT'98? I've never tried it, but rumours say it's good stuff too (albeit a bit outdated).


That was a commercial offering. I have it somewhere, but have never really used it. It had a HTML-based configuration system that was quite good, but tried too hard to be a unix server. I think that is the main problem with EasyMiNT too - it's easy to install but actually a rather complex system that tries too hard to be "unix" but fails because the kernel and GUI isn't up to that job.
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