TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

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TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:43 am

An adapter that allows to run TT High (1280x960) on a standard VGA LCD Panel is now available for sale. It essentially replaces TTM 19x monitors on a standard flat panel.

For further details and PayPal order button:

http://tenoxvga.tenox.net/

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby hercule12 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:22 am

68 views! Has anyone bought one?

Dal seems pleased with it, anyone else buying one?

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby mdivancic » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:01 pm

hercule12 wrote:68 views! Has anyone bought one?

Dal seems pleased with it, anyone else buying one?

I've got one winging its way here right now!
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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby hercule12 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:32 pm

OK, tenox seems to have done a good job on the adaptor, anyone who buys one, please post a review, monitor type, etc.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:49 pm

The adapter has strong sales for German users. Thanks to anyone who is promoting on German forums! I also have orders from within US, Canada, Netherlands and Australia. I was hoping there would be more from UK but Dal is the only person so far.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:38 pm

I'd like one but cash is short at the moment sadly :(
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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:09 am

This is how the adapter looks like in a 3D printed case:

cable.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:25 am


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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:27 am

Zogging Hell wrote:I'd like one but cash is short at the moment sadly :(


And I tried to make these cheaper. The goal was < $100. Didn't work for couple of reasons: quality and quantity :(

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby Dal » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:44 am

Tenox - can you publish or send me the print file for that case please?
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, STacy 2, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:39 am

Sure see attached!

It has both Skechup and STL files.

I've tried printing them with an Atari logo and stuff but they looked awful bad so just settled for plain one.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby dbsys » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:22 pm

hercule12 wrote:68 views! Has anyone bought one?

Dal seems pleased with it, anyone else buying one?


I ordered one and will report.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby Zogging Hell » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:34 pm

tenox wrote:
Zogging Hell wrote:I'd like one but cash is short at the moment sadly :(


And I tried to make these cheaper. The goal was < $100. Didn't work for couple of reasons: quality and quantity :(


Ah no problem, I'm sure it is worth the money, and I'm grateful you made these at all, even if I can't afford one right now. :)
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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby mdivancic » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:34 am

tenox wrote:And I tried to make these cheaper. The goal was < $100. Didn't work for couple of reasons: quality and quantity :(


Hey, don't worry about the price! Quite reasonable for what you have accomplished. Can't wait until mine gets here.
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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby dbsys » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:40 am

dbsys wrote:
hercule12 wrote:68 views! Has anyone bought one?

Dal seems pleased with it, anyone else buying one?


I ordered one and will report.



While I am now waiting to get my ordered Tenox VGA adapter, I would like to ask a question:

Tenox has always pointed out, if we wanted to have truly outstanding picture quality with the adapter, to make sure to have a monitor that can do 1:1 pixel mapping or expansion off.

And he also highly recommended the NEC 19" LCD1990SXi. And indeed, looking at the pictures he has posted, the NEC 1990SXi looks like a great choice.

I looked for a NEC 1990 LCD at the NEC website and found several different versions of the 1990:

1990SX
1990SXp
1990SXi
1990FX
1990FXp

The FX version seems to be more popular over here when doing an ebay search, and so far I could not find the SXi version. So I am not sure, if the FX version will also do the job.

What do you think?

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:15 pm

Excellent question! I have looked through the user manuals of all these models and they all include have the settings that make the difference. These are 1:1 and custom expansion, H.Size, Fine, Sharpness and Black level. Interestingly Dal's NEC monitor doesn't have these but still works perfectly. I'd bet any of these types will work fine. I got my SXi by a chance. It will probably work same as well on FX. So far I actually haven't found what is the difference between FX and SX. It may be worth to research that.

Just to give you an idea: TT High with the adapter on my NEC looks EXACTLY same as ST High with custom resolution on Steem from a PC connected via DVI port of the same monitor. I flip VGA/DVI source and there is absolutely no difference in quality.

Any other monitor with 1:1 expansion will look same as good. If you don't have 1:1 and say best you can do is aspect scale, it will be usable but the display will be slightly anti aliased.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby mdivancic » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:53 pm

Mike came in today, very cool device. Now I need to find a monitor with a 1:1 display!
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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:01 am

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Monitors-Projec ... w=nec+1990

Hey there's one for $19 :)

Although I recommend white to match TT color!

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:38 am

Just stumbled upon this as a better solution to the cable:

Image

http://www.delock.de/produkte/G_65345/merkmale/1.html

Found one on ebay.de: lite pricey but may be a worthwhile:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/301008615994

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby hercule12 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:44 am

For me anything hanging off the back of any socket is a bad idea.

A short cable is the best way, it takes all the strain of a thick VGA cable away from the Atari.

Midex and Log-3 all clip onto the cart port but still have to be supported.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby Ektus » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:47 pm

tenox wrote:Just stumbled upon this as a better solution to the cable:

Image

http://www.delock.de/produkte/G_65345/merkmale/1.html

Found one on ebay.de: lite pricey but may be a worthwhile:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/301008615994


It's available on amazon.de, too, and not as pricey: around €5


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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby dbsys » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:10 pm

tenox wrote:Excellent question! I have looked through the user manuals of all these models and they all include have the settings that make the difference. These are 1:1 and custom expansion, H.Size, Fine, Sharpness and Black level. Interestingly Dal's NEC monitor doesn't have these but still works perfectly. I'd bet any of these types will work fine. I got my SXi by a chance. It will probably work same as well on FX. So far I actually haven't found what is the difference between FX and SX. It may be worth to research that.

Just to give you an idea: TT High with the adapter on my NEC looks EXACTLY same as ST High with custom resolution on Steem from a PC connected via DVI port of the same monitor. I flip VGA/DVI source and there is absolutely no difference in quality.

Any other monitor with 1:1 expansion will look same as good. If you don't have 1:1 and say best you can do is aspect scale, it will be usable but the display will be slightly anti aliased.



First off, I got my ECL2VGA adapter today. Second, I was able to acquire a NEC 1990 SXi off ebay Germany last weekend and it arrived today too. Hooked both up to my TT and immediately had a 1280 x 960 resolution displayed upon boot up. Wow!

I was trying to tweak the NEC advanced settings to the best of my knowledge, but still have a flickering display. There are plenty of parameters and I am a bit overwhelmed, to be honest.

@tenox: Since you have done most of your testing with your NEC and found, that this monitor is a very good choice, would it be possible for you to publish your settings for those who have a NEC or will have one soon?

That would be great! Thanks.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:45 am

dbsys wrote:First off, I got my ECL2VGA adapter today. Second, I was able to acquire a NEC 1990 SXi off ebay Germany last weekend and it arrived today too. Hooked both up to my TT and immediately had a 1280 x 960 resolution displayed upon boot up. Wow!

I was trying to tweak the NEC advanced settings to the best of my knowledge, but still have a flickering display. There are plenty of parameters and I am a bit overwhelmed, to be honest.

@tenox: Since you have done most of your testing with your NEC and found, that this monitor is a very good choice, would it be possible for you to publish your settings for those who have a NEC or will have one soon?

That would be great! Thanks.


Awesome, happy to hear it arrived safely :D

Yeah, NEC 1990 has a ton of settings. It's partly why I love it so much. You will love it too once you get it right :)

OK so let's do this:

1. Figure out if flickering is not caused by cabling. If you ordered the short VGA extension cable then, temporarily remove it and connect the adapter directly to the monitor port in TT. Try a different VGA cable. You can also tap, bend and twist the cables a little bit to see if the flickering changes in any way. If it does it definitely is cabling.

2. Factory reset NEC. And more than once. I often find that auto adjust doesn't always pick up the TT signal correctly. I often factory reset 2-3 times. Pick the best auto adjust after factory reset.

3. Adjust H.Size. Mine is 1792. Immediately afterwards adjust Fine. My fine is around 79% but it may vary.

4. Set brightness and contrast to 100% both.

5. Set Black Level to around 19% and sharpness to 21%.

You should almost never touch H.Size, Fine once set correctly. Same for brightness and contrast.

It takes a bit to play with Black Level and Sharpness. If not set correctly they will cause vertical black bars to appear on white background.

Once all set correctly it should work just perfect, no flickering and artifacts.

Let me know if this helps.

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby dbsys » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:49 pm

tenox wrote:Awesome, happy to hear it arrived safely :D

Yeah, NEC 1990 has a ton of settings. It's partly why I love it so much. You will love it too once you get it right :)

OK so let's do this:

1. Figure out if flickering is not caused by cabling. If you ordered the short VGA extension cable then, temporarily remove it and connect the adapter directly to the monitor port in TT. Try a different VGA cable. You can also tap, bend and twist the cables a little bit to see if the flickering changes in any way. If it does it definitely is cabling.

2. Factory reset NEC. And more than once. I often find that auto adjust doesn't always pick up the TT signal correctly. I often factory reset 2-3 times. Pick the best auto adjust after factory reset.

3. Adjust H.Size. Mine is 1792. Immediately afterwards adjust Fine. My fine is around 79% but it may vary.

4. Set brightness and contrast to 100% both.

5. Set Black Level to around 19% and sharpness to 21%.

You should almost never touch H.Size, Fine once set correctly. Same for brightness and contrast.

It takes a bit to play with Black Level and Sharpness. If not set correctly they will cause vertical black bars to appear on white background.

Once all set correctly it should work just perfect, no flickering and artifacts.

Let me know if this helps.


tenox, thanks a lot for these very useful hints.

It looks like I got the monitor now working almost perfectly.

Here and there I have slightly different settings from yours, but the improvements are quite significant to what I had before.

However I still had some intermediate flicker, getting better, getting worse over time.

Then I had the idea to take back the 12 volts setting of the external power supply to 9 volts. Eh voilà, no flicker any longer. The external power supply is a cheap one, and I am wondering about the voltage requirements of the ECL2VGA adapter.

Have you noticed similar behaviour, depending on the supplied voltage?

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Re: TT High on LCD Panel (ECL2VGA) Adapter Available

Postby tenox » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:06 pm

No I never had any flicker to do with voltage. Other things, like cabling, yes, but not voltage. The adapter has a pretty good voltage regulator. Then again I only tested a with one power adapter except for lab bench adapter. This is what I normally use:

http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/steckernetzteile/7068104/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-in-p ... y/7068104/

9V should also work. You can also try better power supply. You can also try to power it up from the TT PSU by using Y splitter for HDD power and this plug:

http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-stecker/7684399/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-power-plugs/7684399/

Also try adjusting H.Size and Fine little different and see if it helps.

Oh and post some pictures!!! :)
Last edited by tenox on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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