Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:16 pm

pakman wrote:
simbo2 wrote:so this leaves us with the problem of what to do

if i wire up the latest revision with the flash socket and the added disable pd detect jumpers etc
can i still plug in the older mach 210 and it will work as is with the jumpers and its 1.5 firmware or will i need to modify the older code

MACH210 with 1.5 firmware will work in rev.2 boards.
Even if we combine WE1 and WE2 into WEX.
No modifications to the MACH code required.
Just set the Jumper for MACH, that's all.

simbo2 wrote:will i just wire up the board as i posted above
or will i just make a run of the finished rev 2 board that has the added jumpers to disable what the simms PD lines say
???

Go for the rev.2 board!

The pdf attachment is a proposal for the jumper block, will save space.
(left side: current circuit; right side: my proposal)
MagnumTT Jumper.pdf

Something more to consider:
At each SIMM there are following connections:
Pin 44 connected to pin 34
Pin 45 connected to pin 33
Can you manage to route these connections at the bottom side of the PCB?
I want to have the option to isolate pins 33 and 34 by cutting the lines, even on a fully assembled PCB.
This opens the chance to use SIMMS with 8k refresh or with more than 256MB in total (with some additional wiring..)



ok i see what too change over
ill mod the schematics etc

so pin 44 and 45 i can route this way im sure..
let me see ...
8k refresh would be nice more than 256 is a good addition its defo setup as 4BIT block mode ... as the mad lines are groups of 4 bits

so ill do this and post tomorrow
off to bed im tired ,,
:cheers:
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:01 am

now the ram problems is out the way ..... viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20121&start=400#p276366
and all is now good {im totally happy to make them now}
.........................................................................
packman
ive altered the schematics for the new jumpers arrangement
ill do the routing tomorrow etc
here is the pdf of the schematics
and the usual preroute .. with the jumpers blocks
all res and caps ive modded to smd.... except the packs...
ill remember the mods too the tracks at the simms you want
ill add some necked tracks {thin} so can be cut and if i get space ill add a pad set...

any other mods needed? tell me soon ...
as routing is a pita


at this point i can add some breakout pads or solder too the top of the socket
some sort of redundant stuff... perhaps can make life easier in the future

i just want too route it and get it produced as all sizes etc are perfect now
no need for the proto stage... saves around 100euros


my choice for a run is too buy 50 pairs of simms
and supply the board with fitted 256MB fitted tested and working
with some sort of added this and that

but done now i dont want too make a version X series...
their is lots of space to expand into
you just have too look at some other TTRAM expanders too see whats about,.

.. i still think adding ide direct to the board and expand to the right side by a chip and ports
dual ide {4 ports} same as alanH its the best reuse and hddriver is setup in a way this will work
4 x2 ide.. perhaps a sata controller added..
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby pakman » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:54 pm

simbo2 wrote:ill do the routing tomorrow etc.

I see the address line routing is somewhat scrambled, for no reason.
To make routing easier, I propose to rearrange the address lines:
SIMM pin : Current -> Proposal
1st F157:
12 MA0 : MAD0(A2,A3) -> MAD0(A20,A21)
13 MA1 : MAD1(A4,A5) -> MAD1(A18,A19)
14 MA2 : MAD3(A8,A9) -> MAD2(A16,A17)
15 MA3 : MAD4(A10,A11) -> MAD3(A14,A15)
2nd 157:
16 MA4 : MAD9(A20,A21) -> MAD4(A12,A13)
17 MA5 : MAD7(A16,A17) -> MAD5(A10,A11)
18 MA6 : MAD8(A18,A19) -> MAD6(A8,A9)
19 MA10 : MAD10(A23,A22) -> MAD10(A23,A22)
3rd 157:
28 MA7 : MAD6(A14,A15) -> MAD7(A6,A7)
29 MA11 : MAD11(A25,A24) -> MAD11(A25,A24)
31 MA8 : MAD2(A6,A7) -> MAD8(A4,A5)
32 MA9 : MAD5(A12,A13) -> MAD9(A2,A3)

Basically you can swap the address lines according to your needs.
Only MA10 and MA11 should be kept fixed as shown above.
There is no impact on the MACH (or M4A5) code at all.

simbo2 wrote:any other mods needed? tell me soon ...

Will think about it..

Guest

Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:33 pm

pakman wrote:
simbo2 wrote:ill do the routing tomorrow etc.

I see the address line routing is somewhat scrambled, for no reason.
To make routing easier, I propose to rearrange the address lines:
SIMM pin : Current -> Proposal
1st F157:
12 MA0 : MAD0(A2,A3) -> MAD0(A20,A21)
13 MA1 : MAD1(A4,A5) -> MAD1(A18,A19)
14 MA2 : MAD3(A8,A9) -> MAD2(A16,A17)
15 MA3 : MAD4(A10,A11) -> MAD3(A14,A15)
2nd 157:
16 MA4 : MAD9(A20,A21) -> MAD4(A12,A13)
17 MA5 : MAD7(A16,A17) -> MAD5(A10,A11)
18 MA6 : MAD8(A18,A19) -> MAD6(A8,A9)
19 MA10 : MAD10(A23,A22) -> MAD10(A23,A22)
3rd 157:
28 MA7 : MAD6(A14,A15) -> MAD7(A6,A7)
29 MA11 : MAD11(A25,A24) -> MAD11(A25,A24)
31 MA8 : MAD2(A6,A7) -> MAD8(A4,A5)
32 MA9 : MAD5(A12,A13) -> MAD9(A2,A3)

Basically you can swap the address lines according to your needs.
Only MA10 and MA11 should be kept fixed as shown above.
There is no impact on the MACH (or M4A5) code at all.

simbo2 wrote:any other mods needed? tell me soon ...

Will think about it..



think the address lines are arranged to allow nibble {4bits blocks} mode to work properly with modern EDO and FPM as the ram initally used was nibble mode FPM from what i understand nibble mode FPM was just before EDO and EDO is backward complient but nibble mode addressing and also FPM can use this method if addresses differently ... {in 4 bit blocks}

hum.... now im not sure what too do
ive mostly finished routing it :|

so ill alter a schematic on its own see what it looks like

not sure this is right ... it seems addresses are correct for 4 bit nibble mode {burst mode transfers}
edo supports nibble mode and kinda works the same way anyway... fpm doesnt and needs different addresses but this is done in the simms chips

need to see.. perhaps make a proto i think first with all mods done
and leave the rev 1 schematic as is just now
work on a copy ....

?? this is a better idea i can get us two made up for testing perhaps make 4 and some testers ... can help us
and send you a populated one... some ram access tests gembench or etc to test the TTRAM only
perhaps we can write a little test app for this ill ask frankb see if he has time for this step or any member who wants to help please...
with some test routines for TTRAM only perhaps some load a block to STRAM then transfer it about to TTRAM etc
moving where its put .... etc etc

dram edo or fpm uses simm chips internal address counters/decoders for block address etc...
remember the board supports burst nibble modes
and edo and fpm both support it if wired up right

i think the address ladder is setup in such a way nibble mode works with edo and fpm
burst mode is all down to the type edo supports burst mode but im not sure its used too its best extent or EDO runs in compatable mode but nibble mode and the fpm is nibble mode anyway by the addresses ladder employed.


...edo and fpm simms chips decoder encoder etc is setup very different

but in a masked sort of way.... i think this setup is right,,,, to maintain edo as nibble mode fpm ...

the original magnum TT was made in 1998?? so was before EDO became mainstreem and nibble mode fpm was current
so the story is FPM then nibble mode FPM then EDO ...
more research is needed before such a major change....

members are waiting with baited breath.... for there boards too be sent....
and perhaps will start to get a bit peed off

its a lot of work and im just being causious ...
afterall we have a 100% design just now ... and performance can or cannot suffer
some benchmark tool needs built or found first... some block diagrams of ram layout from some simms datasheets details
and chips details ...

:cheers:

moving these two lines RAS to the bottom will mean i must use perhaps 4 or 8 vias i hate vias ..... :shrug:
so im glad also if we can rip it up....

if you have a pc download the proteus vsm demo from the makers site
and you can view the designs ... proteus PDF output is lame and fails to display the ! invert active state labels on the schematics
the problem is i think it exports in generic PDF format and not as a captive image so misses details

if you use a mac and virtual windows youll need VC6 etc runtimes and open GL driver at least... and add directx mostly just for the handles

ps i can simulate this design with code ... ive already made up in the past EDO simms and FPM simms as code dlls
just generic non specific setup as per ram standards publications
runs up too 1mhz...in realtime overall and my dlls will work fine in the demo .. app so you can simulate it

adding stimulus is just a few added this and that.... that also work in the demo
just no save mods.. to the design {its a cheep app to buy a simple version}

now youve confused me ... na not really... from my own experience of coding dlls for simms

ill do a bit of reading ,, ill download a wee collection of simms ic's and simms datasheets
this way we have a pool of generic types to look at the internal stucture of different edo and fpm

see exactly why the addresses are laddered in such a way i have enough respect for uwe to know there must be a reason more than track placement...

i do see your point ... and perhaps we can get other types too work
but so far i modded 5 pairs of simms 3 EDO and 2FPM with mods too the PD resistors they all worked ...
so 5 pairs of 128MB simms only two sets used the same pcb .....

perhaps we can fix the problem with the PD lines but using an and gate or something like a nor... to better use the i/os
or totally overide the simms pd select and hard select by size
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby pakman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:15 pm

simbo2 wrote:think the address lines are arranged to allow nibble {4bits blocks} mode to work properly with modern EDO and FPM

No.
The MagnumTT is neither using page mode nor burst mode.

simbo2 wrote:see exactly why the addresses are laddered in such a way i have enough respect for uwe to know there must be a reason more than track placement...

First I thought so as well..
But believe me: There is no technical reason that the address lines are wired exactly that way.

simbo2 wrote:need to see.. perhaps make a proto i think first with all mods done
and leave the rev 1 schematic as is just now

There is an easy test:
- Take a rev.1 board
- remove the 3x4 33 ohms resistor packs at the MAD* lines
- rewire these 12 address lines (flying leads with 33 ohms single resistors) according to the new scheme
- test it
If you are really in doubt:
Just start with one resistor pack only (only 8 solder joints..)
Swap the MAD lines and see what happens..

Guest

Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:46 pm

ok man no worries
im not convinced.. however...



:coffe:

so ill route this one ....
could spend all day on setting it up just so.. but
as you say and i also think its addressing the edo and fpm in compatable mode
so not taking any advantage of extra features the familys have {generic addressing}
i still dont see why the addressing was mangled anyway....


all done check please :cheers:


na the more i look its not right
how can address 2.3 work as mad 9 now and not mad0 ...
ad 0 and 1 used as bank select for row select strobe..
and siz used for mask... dont buy it sorry
address 2 or 3 must route to mad0

row selects A or B = Y

so even address is used or odd address 11 states to mad on not row select from even addresses
or 11 states to mad on row select from odd addresses

take a look again see if i make a mistake in thinking
its friday night / sat etc 1am and ive had a few
perhaps we can start fresh tomorrow
and i can watch the boxing ... :shrug: and drink my fill


ok before i go to bed or this will bug me

i see where you are now

but there is a reason why and i cant remember
ill look up the chipset details {not the service manual} its on dev docs
it has the TTRAM interface specs

ill dig it out im sure i miss something A2,3 is MAD 0.... not 9
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Guest

Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:31 am

due to lack of life time clock pulses
and more than peed off members {and i am one }
and needing the will too live

few things worry me
the connections for RAS 01 23 are allready on the bottom print
??
waisted time not now.....


this board layout and design
will be the one ill produce like 30 boards and more as needed as a second batch
i already owe darren 250 and members about 200 me about 500 + proto costs.. got some back from texon
who is a star...

its debugged and is 'fit for purpose' or your money back now

i need to give people a working board and soon

and no more added hassle !

i can now supply people the built and working board
!!! together with a pair of 128MB simms modded to work
as a simple plug and play 256MB too go its a sad thing i still need to pay bills feed myself and also payout for parts needed as needed on a too do list...
so... the layout and really needed by all that need it
as is now is perfect

so i no longer need to modify the meat too suite the salad and sauce..


its dragged on too long :shrug:
:megaphone: and the final decision has been made !!! :contract:
i see no real point in adding to the design
as a pair of simms
perhaps use a single dimm P1/2 level
i am happy to work with pakman and others on some sort of dev
without issue
but.... really... and reality comes too me
all we gain is more space maybe....
for heeps of work and more components and grief
so ... thats that ... and im not for shifting :cry:
>>> to this effect ill order the run of pcb tomorrow so its out with the visa..
problem solved
here is the design incase you want too make one

if your magnum has less than 256MB read here

check here for details on the ebay links and what to do to your 128MB simms
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20121&start=400#p276366
they are 20$ each and pick off one resistor {if the board sees 64MB or 128 for a pair of 128's
then measure the pads
check at the jumper selectors pins on the board
to confirm all 5v 1111 {details in the post}
this layout has added simm choice disable so you can hard set a size


im sick of redrawing too add i dont know ...
my idea was too add ide
but falls on deaf ears..

still got to listen to the tenny matches today.. :roll:
and tomorrow i am taking a day off... :P


sleeping late tomorrow for sure.. to many addresses ... :?
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tenox » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:44 am

:megaphone: Simbo delivered!

mag1.jpg


mag2.jpg


mag4.jpg


:cheers:
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:20 pm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130593572400? ... EBIDX%3AIT

128MB ram link 20 bucks each and post
arrived in uk fine no duty.. five days
it may be edo that will arrived but 5v is the issue and it works magic...

no matter it will work with a tweak
seems a good seller....

you need to remove one resistor from each
if you cant find them
take a couple of pics , and post

looks good texon magic too see this amount of ram glad your happy at last

i dont like too let people down ... :cheers: :angel:

i see you have 4MB stram {stram left 68k ?? lol hahaahaha :roll:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24048

what revision of stram board do you have ??? hope its rev 2
i can send you a rev2 board 8MB now...
send me one back the stram with 2MB rev 2 { has jumpers and soic chips not dil}
if its a rev 1 board youll need to wait a bit {still checking pcb design to date }
but , its here and waiting for someone...

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tenox » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:11 am

Hey Simbo,

I'd love to take your offer on 8MB STRAM. I will check my board later on today..

However more immediate problem is, Atari System V UNIX crashes on the new 256 MB board. I'm trying to recall and I think there was some requirement for it, like two banks populated (which it is). Could it be a jumper setting? I have the old style mobo with CPU daughter board. The original Magnum had a jumper for this.

Also thinking maybe I should try less RAM. The RAM chips before send them to you came up as 64 MB RAM which worked pretty well for ASV.

Any ideas?

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby frank.lukas » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:51 am

Switch the Burst-Mode off and try again ...

See the Magnum TT Manual.
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tenox » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:24 am

frank.lukas wrote:Switch the Burst-Mode off and try again ...

See the Magnum TT Manual.


Simbo which jumper on your card is this?

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:31 am

hi

there is a jumper on the magnum for wait state 1/0 wait state 0 is jumper on and wait 1 is jumper off
for the old style mainboard take the jumper off to add a wait state into the mix
this will make it more stable

if this is still a problem you can limit the size by adding a couple of jumpers back

like this 0 no jumper 1 jumper added

0101 {wait 1} is 64MB

1010 i think would be 128MB as a pair
1111 is 32MB

i would not use the magnum with a single simm.. not sure its stable
the magnum install guide mentions it may not work correctly

but i think just adding the wait state back will fix it :P
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tenox » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:19 am

Okay thanks. I have tried several combinations. I was able to get 64 and 128MB, but not 256MB.

128 is still awesome! :cheers:

Curiously I get this error when booting with 128MB:

WP_20150717_02_12_06_Pro.jpg


The system boots and works as normal. Probably without floppy module, but who cares.

Maybe I will need to look in to your offer on more STRAM and/or try to tweak some kernel settings.
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:45 am

256 is all jumpers off 00000
and is wait state 1 this should work aok

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tenox » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:39 am

I've tried no jumpers as a first thing. Didn't work.

Guest

Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Guest » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:48 pm

what is the problem with no jumpers 00000 no boot???

if this is an issue set the last jumper back and fix the cashe not sure it likes 4MB stram..

all size jumpers 0
the last jumpers wait state should be off so all jumpers 0000 0 is correct for 256MB and 1 wait state
this sets the magnum card correctly for older machines.. with daughter board

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Dal » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:41 pm

I have received an email from Simbo this evening. One of his requests was for anyone to contact him if they still want this TTRAM board.

His account still has PM permissions so you may contact him via this link:
ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=21573
As to whether he will log in to check his messages, I don't know.

Should you require his email address, please contact me directly.
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Bama » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:31 pm

Hi Dal,

I tried to contact Simbo to purchase a Magnum TTRAM via the link you shared. The site reports some users don't have permission for PM's? Please advise.

Thanks
:-)
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Oldskool » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:39 pm

I think you should mail Simbo directly.
He is still looking for some people to invest in the project.

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby AlexSTE » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:14 am

But he does not respond to emails. I was trying to order some boards from him and nothing...
[b] I am looking for: Atari TT030. Panther2 board, Magnum TTram board[/b]
Currently have: Atari 1040 STF, Atari 1040 STE Ultrasatan, MonSTEr board, Scart with HD to HDMI converter, IDE to CF, IDE DVD in external enclosure. 5 IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads. HP Chromebook. Custom AMD race SIM rig. Custom AMD Hackintosh. Apple Powermac G5 2x2.7GHz watercooled PPC.

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Bama » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:42 am

Oldskool wrote:I think you should mail Simbo directly.
He is still looking for some people to invest in the project.


What is his email address?

Thanks
:-)
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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Oldskool » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:30 pm

Hi Bama,

Just send you the email address.

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby Oldskool » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:57 pm

Dear All,

Got some pm's asking for the email address of Sim. Also some people were wondering why Sim was not replying to mail send.
Today he replied telling me that he lost some mails due to computer issues. So if you did not get any replies just mail him again.

For details contact him (not me :))

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Re: Magnum TTRAM 256MB boards for the TT 030

Postby tuxie » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:46 pm

We, pakman, gaga and me (german forum) working on a TT-Fastram/IDE Card, we ordered the prototype boards for IDE and Fastram Card. I will post some new informations when we are done with the prototypes.
http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=12683.0
Last edited by tuxie on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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