Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:28 pm

ctirad wrote:Aaa! You are right. Just switching desktop to the ST-HI from 640x480x16 did the trick and now it seems to work perfectly.

Cool! Whew! I'll have to make a note of that. 8)

Be careful with the ST compatible video modes as the display will be garbled on exiting the game (see the issues list). Alternatively just select 2 bitplanes instead of ST-High.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby MM41 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:57 pm

Tryed on my Falcon , it's very good , great work :D
(I hope that the next test version have scrolling :wink: )

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:40 pm

MM41 wrote:Tryed on my Falcon , it's very good , great work :D
(I hope that the next test version have scrolling :wink: )

Thanks and yeah stay tuned for the next version. :D

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby dml » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:02 pm

I've not been on AF much recently but wanted to drop a note here - excellent!!

And like everyone else I can't wait for a scrolling version :D

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:36 pm

dml wrote:I've not been on AF much recently but wanted to drop a note here - excellent!!

And like everyone else I can't wait for a scrolling version :D

Thanks Doug. Well... patience is a virtue. :D

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby dhedberg » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:15 pm

WOW! This is some very impressive work! Hard to believe it's a standard Falcon030 running the game! I'll try it out on real hardware this weekend!
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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:14 am

dhedberg wrote:WOW! This is some very impressive work! Hard to believe it's a standard Falcon030 running the game! I'll try it out on real hardware this weekend!

Thanks Daniel. I would recommend to run it on a TV/RGB because it's a bit faster.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Strider » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:40 pm

I compared this version with the previous one and that's quite impressive.
The first version was horribly slow, the new one seems to drop frames to speed up things.
The game is faster... and obviously harder: the two bosses of the first level are incredibly fast, it's a bit surprising after playing at the first version :D

Tested on a Falcon030 with CentRam 14 MB on a VGA monitor (no RGB here).
Also tested in CT60 mode, the game isn't faster but works like a charm.

I can't wait for the next beta version :mrgreen:
Keep up the good things! :cheers:
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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:27 pm

Strider wrote:Keep up the good things! :cheers:

:cheers:
Yes, the game is indeed very challenging. The frameskip is necessary to maintain a constant gameplay but it might confuse the player a bit so that it's even harder now.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby toryu » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:23 pm

yes! today i managed to test this little gem on my falcon. and i am impressed... hope you get the slowdowns fixed, but even if not a great port! youre work is a great addition to the community and you are archiving this what i so long dreamed of for this nice machines => finest japanes gaming architecture on finest western hardware :D its a pity i couldnt get galaga to run on my machine

i never ever thought of this but it seems to become true: atari st shmup machine <3
16 colors are enough for this ****** up world

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:55 pm

toryu wrote:yes! today i managed to test this little gem on my falcon. and i am impressed... hope you get the slowdowns fixed, but even if not a great port! youre work is a great addition to the community and you are archiving this what i so long dreamed of for this nice machines => finest japanes gaming architecture on finest western hardware :D its a pity i couldnt get galaga to run on my machine

i never ever thought of this but it seems to become true: atari st shmup machine <3

Thanks.

Well, Cho Ren Sha 68k is clearly too much for the Falcon. Frame skipping and the DSP assisted sprite routine helps a bit to gain speed but still there are scenes with too many objects. Also the gameplay slows down which might result in an awkward playing experience.

Even the X68000 is not able to maintain a stable frame rate and has problems displaying all the sprites but this shouldn't be an excuse.

However, I think it's still an acceptable conversion.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:38 pm

I just made the sources for Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon 030 available. Please visit the Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon 030 Bitbucket repository website to download and compile the code on either Mac/Linux/Windows.

So who dares to do a port for the Amiga 1200? The Amiga community is quite silent on this matter. :lol:

Please let me know if you have questions about it.

Edit: a new video is also available here: https://youtu.be/2KjwQYw-1Eo

Last edited by Anima on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby marss » Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:57 pm

Excellent.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:55 pm

Wow! They would've sold a lot more Falcons if this was available when it came out lol, Nice work!

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Marakatti » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:30 pm

Just saw it in action. Holy something which this forum software would censor! I can't believe my eyes 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O
Many thanks :cheers:
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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby EvilFranky » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:00 am

Anima wrote:So who dares to do a port for the Amiga 1200? The Amiga community is quite silent on this matter. :lol:


:mrgreen:

I've seen some of your posts about this on the EAB forums Anima, great stuff. There are a LOT of deluded Amiga users, especially in regard to the 1200...talk of being superior to SNES and arcade hardware, golden! :D

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Ragstaff » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:36 am

Do you have any links? I need a laugh (not at the fact the A1200 can't do this - it's a good machine I respect.... but at the fan boys, yes!)

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby EvilFranky » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:01 am

Megaman X conversion thread is a good read:-

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=80877

If possible: which Coin-op wanted on Amiga? Old thread but discussions in 2015:-

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=9399

Conversion Capers: Rygar:-

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70634

It's not all drivel, there is some interesting discussion, but a good read ;)

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:48 am

EvilFranky wrote:I've seen some of your posts about this on the EAB forums Anima, great stuff. There are a LOT of deluded Amiga users, especially in regard to the 1200...talk of being superior to SNES and arcade hardware, golden! :D

I didn't really try to convice them seriously to do a port but the reaction on their side is alway silence. I even made some tests to see what's possible on the Amiga. In fact, there's a starting source code for the Amiga in the repository but alas... the nature and the advantages of the tile based sprite systems are way too much to cope with. The plane bitmap only graphics of the Amiga is absolutely awkward and ineffective when you have to work with tons of 16 x 16 pixel sprites. Especially when you consider that the Blitter in the Amiga 1200 is almost useless. Also keep in mind that tile based graphics is the standard on almost every arcade machine of that era and so trying to port them 1:1 is almost impossible on a stock Amiga 1200.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Ragstaff » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:55 am

It's a pity in a way as I'd love to see a version on the A1200, but knowing that it won't be comparable to the Falcon will probably be the barrier, most Amiga people would rather avoid the comparison I suspect so won't make it.
EvilFranky wrote:Megaman X conversion thread is a good read:-

snip


Thanks, I'll have a browse through all that ;-)

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Atari030 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:47 pm

Fired this up on the basic Falcon last night. Sweet job its just fantastic.

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby EvilFranky » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Anima wrote:I didn't really try to convice them seriously to do a port but the reaction on their side is alway silence. I even made some tests to see what's possible on the Amiga. In fact, there's a starting source code for the Amiga in the repository but alas... the nature and the advantages of the tile based sprite systems are way too much to cope with. The plane bitmap only graphics of the Amiga is absolutely awkward and ineffective when you have to work with tons of 16 x 16 pixel sprites. Especially when you consider that the Blitter in the Amiga 1200 is almost useless. Also keep in mind that tile based graphics is the standard on almost every arcade machine of that era and so trying to port them 1:1 is almost impossible on a stock Amiga 1200.


It's good to see someone actually attempting this and putting it to the test, you have real evidence to backup your claims that an A1200 could not cope with this conversion or many other arcade conversions. Something lost on the majority of Amiga users, either blindly unwilling to accept the facts or just deluded.

Any plans to do any more work on this project Anima? Add scrolling etc? Or anything else in the pipeline you could provide a bit of info about? :wink:

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby calimero » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:34 pm

Do you have link with explanatio how tile based sprites work?

And how generaly arcade machines from mid and late 80s work? I find really confusing that they have fee kb of ram and few kb of vram (less than single frame buffer!) but they have eg 68000 with custom video hardware... So I wonder how arcade machines move and draw so much graphics every frame?!? (I beleive that tile based sprites are part of answer :))

Regarding your port Anima, why do you need 14MB? And is it possible to bring back scrolling of background?

I agree that this would sell lot more Falcons back in days... More than eg finished Raiden ;)
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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby Anima » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:13 pm

calimero wrote:Do you have link with explanatio how tile based sprites work?

The development docs of the Neo Geo and a short technical overview of the Capcom Play System 1 give an idea how the sprites will be defined:

You have a memory mapped area of a table with a certain number of sprite info structures. The sprite graphics data itself is stored in the ROMs so you need only a small RAM area for the game logic.

A 16 x 16 pixels sprite usually encodes a pixel with 4 bits so it can reference up to 16 colours (15 colours that is, because the first "colour" represents a transparent pixel). Two pixels are packed in a byte so the memory consumption is quite effective. Also you can flip a sprite horizontally and vertically. This reduces the memory to 1/4 (if the flipping is heavily used). Using different palettes for each sprites makes it easy to save more memory. Just use another palette to have "different" enemies or show that an enemy has been hit. Combine sprites together and extend the effective palette to more than 16 (15) colours. Also the combination allows to animate only a few sprites like the legs of characters in a fighting game.

This all saves a lot of memory and just converting all the sprites to Blitter Objects will not work. Especially when you "only" have a 256 colour graphics mode. Even when you did this you have to write on all 8 planes just to draw a sprite with only 16 colours. You need to write on twice as much memory when the sprite moves over a word boundary. That's totally ineffective. Unfortunately you cannot combine sprites to a big Blitter Object because some sprites within that big object will be exchanged as part of an animation (like an opening loophole).

calimero wrote:Regarding your port Anima, why do you need 14MB? And is it possible to bring back scrolling of background?

Keep in mind that there are 1885 differnt sprites which will be flipped horizontally and vertically and finally being compiled to memory. This is quite expensive but since the background is not that important I can try to reduce it. I am not sure if it will fit into 4 MB anyway.

Well I've put the project on hold but did not abandon it...

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Re: Cho Ren Sha 68k for the Atari Falcon030

Postby alienkidmj12 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:24 pm

Love this conversion stuff. Keep up the good work.


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