RACER Falcon (new game)

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby STEgregory » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:43 pm

Absoluetly ace!!! Thanking you everyone & Merry Christmas :))

You guys rock!!


https://www.youtube.com/user/AtariSTdemoscene/Videos

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby purpleeagle01 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:45 pm

Many thx
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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby MacFalcon » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:57 am

Excellent game! I love it!

Definitely best Falcon racer :cheers:

Merry Christmas!

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby nemodhs » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:16 pm

Just gave it a quick test drive. Great game indeed. Thanks a lot.

What a great year for the Falcon. :D

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:10 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies.

I upload this thread in case some people missed the info during the holidays ;)

The links for downloading the game :

http://christophe.bray.free.fr/informat ... htm#Racer2
http://demozoo.org/productions/128267/
http://www.jagware.org/~c.v.s.d.//frien ... ACER_2.zip

Sorry if I forgot a link, just tell me and I'll add it here.

Could anybody make a video of the game with a few tracks ?
I'd like the game to be pushed on Pouet (after all it was a prod of sillyventure 2k14, so it should be on pouet, no ?

I'm still waiting your best scores guys ;)

Regards
Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaceySnr » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:46 am

Ha, I did miss the news (though I did spend some time coding on the Falcon myself!).... going to check this out tonight for sure!

*Edit*

Just had a play and it's great fun! I do think there needs to be an extra scale level on the other cars' sprites as they look a bit too big as you appoach but it looks great and plays well. Love the whole front end too, it's obvious that you've put a lot of effort into it! I did get a crash while playing on the Casino track under Arcade, not sure if I can tie it down to anything reproucible just yet though.

Nice work Laurent (& others!)!

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:27 pm

Hi,

The game is now available on pouet.net :

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=64845

LaceySnr, tell me if the bug repeats again.
Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:09 pm

Thanks a lot everybody for all your returns.
I'm happy you like RACER 2.

For those who use the keayboard to play, I've noticed that the README.TXT file is not clear on that point :

You have to use the arrows keys to move the flag that selects options and LEFT_SHIFT to select an option.

Sorry for the imprecision

Best regards

Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaceySnr » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:26 am

Hey Laurent,

Afraid I did just get a lock-up again. Thing just freezes with a looping sound buffer. I was doing the Challenge, completed the first race and was then on my second lap of the island when it locked up.

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaceySnr » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:38 am

Let's get the score chase going people! First up:

Arcade - Pilote - The Circuit, 4849
Arcade - Pilote - Dark Castle, 4800
Arcade - Pilote - Desert, 4805
Arcade - Pilote - The Moon, 4832


Edit note: I seem to be somewhat consistent :)

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:07 am

Where's STOT gone??
FireBee, Falcon -Soundpool case: CT63@95Mhz + 14MB/512MB + 16GB SSD + FPU + Phantom 25/50 + SuperVidel + SoundPool FDI + FA8 + ADAT + Eiffel, TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, STbook, STacy 2, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby christos » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:14 am

Dal wrote:Where's STOT gone??


STOT is dead and burried unfortunately :).
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STOT Email address: stot(NoSPAM)atari(DOT)org

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:11 pm

Hi all,

> Let's get the score chase going people! First up:
> [...]

Great !
You'll still discover the level 7 (driving on ice in the mountains, much more difficult) than the others.
And the special level 8 (which is a pure surprise for those who'll take the time to drive to it).

Of course, each level is different (music, background picture, roads, ...) in the 3 modes of games, so, for example the level 8 ;) has different mappings on the road according to the mode.
Don't forget also that there are 3 different animated ending sequences (1 for arcade mode, 1 for challenge mode and one for championship mode).

You can increase your score by a lot if you drive in ace pilot mode (but of course, it's harder).
I've managed a >10000 score in a championship race (ace drive mode).

Last request, if you like the game (or not), just don't forget to tell it on pouet. ;)

Have fun, stay (H)atari.
Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:16 pm

> LaceySnr
> Afraid I did just get a lock-up again. Thing just freezes with a looping sound buffer. I was doing the Challenge, completed the first race and was then on my second lap of the island when it locked up.

Do you play on a standard 030 16 mhz falcon or on an accelerated one ?
Xerus did some tests on his CT60 and he had some freezes (it seemed to be related to the frequency (the higher frequency, the fastest the freezes arrived).
But we didin't detect freezes on standard falcon while testing the game (and we diod hours of gameplay ;)

We've spent many hours testing the game, with many peopple ( + my son and daughter ;), but, the game may still have one bug here and there, sorry for that.

Have fun, stay (H)atari.
Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:29 pm

Damn, it ate 53 MB on my CF card ! :mrgreen: And it is worth of every byte - really nice work, good speed, sound, effects.
I upped recorded 4.5 min video to YouTube: http://youtu.be/4130XgS_bsA
If you want some changes in description, let me know.
I'm not against GMO, I'm against that children play with fire.

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:34 pm

Many thanks forthe video, it's nice of you.

So you play in flat mode ;)

Did you manage to finish one racing mode ?

A tip, you should really run in textured mode (in the option menu) if you want to have the best of the level 8.

Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:02 pm

I did not play match because lack of time. Additionally, Falcon is not in best shape - must find problem what makes it unstable after 5-10 minutes of work .
I'm not against GMO, I'm against that children play with fire.

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby calimero » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:25 pm

-- disclaimer: I am not coder, everything I wrote in asembler was small 128 bytes intro so please do correct me where I am wrong :)

I wonder if it is possible to use DSP for scaling and drawing car sprites in realtime?

my idea is to load as much as possible full sized car sprites in DSP memory at beginning
than every frame CPU will pass scale factor to DSP for onscreen cars
DSP do resize sprites to desired size
and draw them from DSP to screen memory

is this possible?
(btw I know laurent that you use DSP for textured road but let imagine that you dedicated entire DSP to sprites scales)

Q: is DSP fast enough for this? (for scaling there should be some ADD, DIV and some branching instructions...?)

Q: is it possible to draw sprites from DSP memory to video memory fast enough? CPU draw all elements and at the end DSP draw sprite to correct positions (while transfer is in progress, can DSP or 68030 continue to execute some instructions or they are completely occupied with data transfer? is it possible to use e.g. two buffer for two sprites so while one sprite is copied to video memory, other is resized by DSP)?

or is this complete science fictions in my head :D
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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:27 pm

I think it helps to read Douglas' CPU <-> DPS optimization comments from his Falcon Quake II & BadMood threads. :-)

You need to think whether your use-case is in general calculation or memory bandwidth bound. DSP is best for things that are raw calculation bound and which require little memory bandwidth. Even if use-case is calculation bound, DSP itself doesn't have much memory so you likely need to transfer data to it and back, which can also become a bottleneck (or at least you may need to design your CPU <-> DSP communication so that it doesn't become bottleneck).

How sophisticated scaling you were thinking of (mipmapping, filtering etc)?

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby calimero » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:06 pm

Eero Tamminen wrote:I think it helps to read Douglas' CPU <-> DPS optimization comments from his Falcon Quake II & BadMood threads. :-)

I usually read all post from dml (so I get this kind of crazy idea) :)
I also read some older texts from Atari veterans regarding DSP but I still have zero experience with DSP :)

Eero Tamminen wrote:You need to think whether your use-case is in general calculation or memory bandwidth bound. DSP is best for things that are raw calculation bound and which require little memory bandwidth. Even if use-case is calculation bound, DSP itself doesn't have much memory so you likely need to transfer data to it and back, which can also become a bottleneck (or at least you may need to design your CPU <-> DSP communication so that it doesn't become bottleneck).


Idea is not to move sprites *to* DSP memory at all but only to load all of them ONCE! Than DSP would resize them and copy directly to video RAM to correct position.

I am not familiar with algorithm for resizing bitmaps but simple averaging pixels value (for one destination pixel ADD 4 neighbour pixels and DIV with 5 for each of RGB components) should give good results and it is pretty instruction demanding.

some calculation:
If one car sprite is 90 x 60 x 8 bits (256 color) it will take 5400 bytes
Falcon DSP have 96KBytes of external memory so you could pack around 15 different cars.

We will also need some target memory for writing resized sprite. 90 x 60 x 16bits (or one DSP word to avoid converting 24bits DSP word when writing to main RAM) - 5400 DSP words or 10.8KB (in case that sprite is 99% in size).
(note: maybe TWO target memory if DSP can continue code execution while copy data to main ram - so he can continue to calculate another sprite!).

I did not find any information about cycle timings for DSP instructions but some manuals state that most instructions are one cycle long (although only if you use one external RAM). If DSP in Falcon have 32MIPS so you will have around 1 MIPS per frame (if we target 30 FPS). In 1 MIPS we need to travel through as much as maybe ten 90x60 sprites (54.000 pixels) so we will have around 18 instruction per pixel (this is worst case scenario - if you have 10 sprites that are almost 100% in scale).

and we need to transfer sprites to main memory. One sprite in 99% scale would be almost 10.8KB; if we have e.g. 5 such sprites they are around 50KB in total (or 1.5MB for 30FPS - this is all that should be transferred from DSP to main RAM) .

hope that all this have at least some sense :)


Eero Tamminen wrote:How sophisticated scaling you were thinking of (mipmapping, filtering etc)?

as much as DSP instruction budget will allow :)

EDIT:
I just realise that you can not pack 8bit sprites to DSP in chunky format because you would end with 256 color fixed palette... so we either need to 1) reduce number of sprites or 2) to add some index color table so DSP know what are starting 16bit chunky color values...
btw if we add index color table than we could reduce size of sprites even further! we could use only 16 colors (4bits per pixel) per sprite (every sprite could have own color table aside) so we can pack even more sprites to DSP ram.
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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:21 pm

Hi Calimero,

First, I'll surprise you, but the whole game runs only on the 68030 side (there's absolutely no DSP code for Racer 2, except the music).
This proves that the 68030 is a much more capable processor than everybody thinks.

The main problem with the DSP is its low memory (96 ko) which is very good for computing, buffering datas, but wouldn't allow to keep in memory the whole cars (+ sides sprites +road textures + music + sounds ...)
Give me a 4 megs DSP ;)

I've got some code on my hard drive that runs the mathematics of the game, but without music nor sound (the textures and sprites are left on the 68030 side, only the sprites positions, the cars positions and the road data are in the DSP memory, and there's no more space left).
The gain is not that much (1 VBL max).

Do you think the game is not fast enough ? ;)

No, I know you'd like a perfect size zoom on the cars, but I think I've done the best choice for an arcade game on falcon (don't forget the kind of racing games we had by the time the falcon arrived, I think it wouldn't have been ridiculous in 1993) ;)

Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby calimero » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:11 pm

LaurentS wrote:Hi Calimero,

First, I'll surprise you, but the whole game runs only on the 68030 side (there's absolutely no DSP code for Racer 2, except the music).


great! than DSP is free for sprite resize code :) (I remember that you once mention that road is calculated by DSP but did not know that you moved everything to MC68030).

LaurentS wrote:The main problem with the DSP is its low memory (96 ko) which is very good for computing, buffering datas, but wouldn't allow to keep in memory the whole cars (+ sides sprites +road textures + music + sounds ...)

but there is more than enough memory for car sprites!

one car sprite is 90 x 60 pixels. If you save it in 16 color (4 bits per pixel) than it will take 2700 bytes. Beside this data you will also need 16 words for color data - each word would contain one 16bit color pixel and it will be used to convert 4bits to real colors.

So in less than 80KB you could pack 28 DIFFERENT cars.

Main question is if DSP is fast enough to do proper downscale of sprite.


LaurentS wrote:Do you think the game is not fast enough ? ;)

No, I know you'd like a perfect size zoom on the cars,

yes. my main concern is not speed gain but perfect zoom (scale down) of car sprites :)

it could be even better than on arcade games! :)
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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 pm

> great! than DSP is free for sprite resize code :) (I remember that you once mention that road is calculated by DSP but did not know that you moved everything to MC68030).

Remind that the DSP is already used for the music + sounds, so it has less memory and less CPU available.

> Main question is if DSP is fast enough to do proper downscale of sprite.

I think it certainly is, but probably the 68030 too.
It's only 1 div to scale the sprite and then forget 1 pixel every x pixels.
But if you do it this way, you'll have to display the sprite in a X, Y embeded loop to detect the transparent pixels (very slow for the falcon)
Remember I've pre-compiled all the sprites in 20 zoomed factors to gain the maximum speed.

I think it's just my scaling factor for choosing the sprite to display according to Z which is a problem for you and not the number of zoomed sprites, but I think 20 zooms factors should be suffisant for one car.
I've done this scaling factor table by hand (at feeling;). I should certainly have computed it to get the correct zoomed sprite for a given Z.


So, you'd have 3 choices :
- display much less sprites than the game currently does (because of the X, Y loops + test if transparent pixel), or
- scale only one car sprite instead of the 10 as there are actually in the game , but with more scaling steps and a precise table to choose which sprite to display according to the distance.
- use 14 megs in the falcon instead of 4 megs (I didn't want this).

I chose to display more than 40 sprites around the road (some very big) + 10 or more cars simultaneously on screen + a mapped track with a precise road movement and a very far sight (I've never seen such a far sight in an old racing game before).

Just compare with vroom (which is the only other racing game on falcon), or try nature's game "Reeking rubber".
I think Racer 2 has the good number of sprites, and the good speed for an arcade game.

But you're right, the game can certainly be improved more (we can always do better ;), but I've already spent 2 years on it and I want to go on something else now (with the little share time I can spend on the atari).

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby LaurentS » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:34 pm

If someone thinks that my Z zooming is not "natural", and wants to help me doing it "smoother", I would be glad.

Here is the Z_table used in Racer 2 :

; Word jump table used to determine which height or which sprite to take into account
; for an object or a car according to its Z position relative to the player position
math_scaling_table_z:
dc.w 38,38,36,34,32,30,28,26,24,22,20,18,16,14,12,10,10,8,8,8,6,6,6,6,6,6,4,4,4,4,4,4
dc.w 4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2
dc.w 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
dc.w 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
dc.w 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
dc.w 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
dc.w 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0


0 = sprite zommed at 5%
2 = sprite zoomed at 10 %
4 = sprite zoomed at 15 %
38 = sprite zoomed at 100 %

There are 200 Z segments on a road (each segment is 256 length, but that's not useful here ;) )

I've done this table by hand.

Regards
Laurent

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Re: RACER Falcon (new game)

Postby Dal » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:19 am

Why can't it be linear? Would something like this give a smoother sense of perspective?

dc.w 38,38,38,38,38,37,37,37,37,37,36,36,36,36,36,36,35,35,35,35,35,34,34,34,34,34,33,33,33,33,33,33
dc.w 32,32,32,32,33,31,31,31,31,31,30,30,30,30,30,30,29,29,29,29,29,28,28,28,28,28,27,27,27,27,27,27
dc.w 26,26,26,26,26,25,25,25,25,25,24,24,24,24,24,24,23,23,23,23,23,22,22,22,22,22,21,21,21,21,21,21
dc.w 20,20,20,20,20,19,19,19,19,19,18,18,18,18,18,18,17,17,17,17,17,16,16,16,16,16,15,15,15,15,15,15
dc.w 14,14,14,14,14,13,13,13,13,13,12,12,12,12,12,12,11,11,11,11,11,10,10,10,10,10,9,9,9,9,9,9
dc.w 8,8,8,8,8,7,7,7,7,7,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,4,4,4,4,4,3,3,3,3,3,3
dc.w 2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0
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