Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Frank B » Tue May 09, 2017 2:49 pm

calimero wrote:
dlfrsilver wrote:Well this remains a not too overly complicated game from the sprites point. Just playing the whole game and note which sprites are present in level X.


"Just playing the whole game" - offtopic but funny time :D: "Ghosts N' Goblins - Angry Video Game Nerd - Episode 108" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Y6y1MOoEo


Well you could have the sprite draw code log which frames are drawn.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Tue May 09, 2017 5:38 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:5 levels in this game, 10mb for sprites ? 10/5 = 2mb for sprites. How much ram is needed for backgrounds/foregrounds ?

You have to keep in mind that there are some sprites which might be present at each level. The main character including all powered up incarnations with all the animations and different weapons will add up very fast. I think that squeezing everything into 4 MB is still a real challenge.

calimero wrote:Looks really impressive!
but what about moving background? Will it affect speed?

No, due to the hardware scrolling support (except for the time spend updating the new visible columns).

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Well Anima, some sprites like Arthur whole frame set must be in ram at any time. But for each level specific, you only load the sprites required.

i checked the saturn version, but it seems that they used a compression..... so no cigar....
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby calimero » Tue May 09, 2017 11:18 pm

Btw could you use Dougs technique like in Metal Solider demo for pseudo more colors? Or it will take too much memory?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Thu May 11, 2017 7:24 am

calimero wrote:Btw could you use Dougs technique like in Metal Solider demo for pseudo more colors? Or it will take too much memory?

That technique would be perfect for arcade conversions but it needs twice as much data and this is not an option for at least the CPS ports. ;)

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Thu May 11, 2017 5:06 pm

Short update: all important MAME cheats (as a debugging help) have been added so I can check all levels with the new "teleport functions". Also a strange bus error access will now be handled correctly at the last stage.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu May 11, 2017 5:55 pm

Just as hint :

https://www.spriters-resource.com/arcade/ghoulsnghosts/

You'll see all the sprites seperated.

Level 1 sees :

The Magician,
The Skeleton,
The Vulture,
The Skull plant,
The tornado Weasel,
The earthworm,
The Pig Man,

Boss : Wielder

Level 2 sees :

The Magician (present on all stages),
The rock turtles,
The Sand beetle,
The Dragonfly, (palette 1)
The Windmill (flame animation),
The Red arremer king,
The Fire Bat,
The evil plant,

Boss : Cerberus

Level 3 sees :

The Magician,
The Mud Knight,
the Flying goblins,
the Boar's head,
The Gargoyles,
the blue flame,
The dragonfly, (present here as well as in level 2)

Boss : Gassuto

Level 4 sees :

The Skeleton,
the mud demon,
The viper,
The goopy,
The leech,
The Venus fly trap,
The venom,

Boss : Ohme!

Level 5 sees :

The Magician,
The Bone dragons,
The Pigman,
The red arremer king,
The Dragon fly (present as well as in level 2 and 3) (palette 2)
The flying goblins (palette 2)
Wielder boss arm and head

small boss : astaroth

boss : Beelzebub

Level 6 sees :

Lucifer
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Wed May 17, 2017 8:48 am

dlfrsilver wrote:Just as hint :

https://www.spriters-resource.com/arcade/ghoulsnghosts/

You'll see all the sprites seperated.

Level 1 sees :
[...]

Thanks. I'll have a look on that list for sure later on.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Wed May 17, 2017 8:49 am

WIP update: gameplay sprites stress test:


https://youtu.be/ltl_5hNbwI8


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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed May 17, 2017 11:43 am

that's cool, just can't wait to see what will happen once you'll include the level backgrounds :)
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby AtariCrypt » Wed May 17, 2017 4:31 pm

I agree, this is so cool. I'm REALLY excited to see where all this is heading. Well done!!
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby bear » Wed May 17, 2017 4:58 pm

Amazing. One of the most interesting threads at Atari-forum!

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu May 18, 2017 8:15 am

yes for sure !!!!
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Thu May 18, 2017 7:07 pm

Update: background tiles extraction works now.
Image

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Frank B » Thu May 18, 2017 8:15 pm

Please add a CPU renderer mode to the game. It should open eyes to how effective the ST blitter is :D

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Fri May 19, 2017 4:34 am

Frank B wrote:Please add a CPU renderer mode to the game. It should open eyes to how effective the ST blitter is :D

A comparison would be nice indeed. However, I don't have a CPU drawing code ready and I expect that someone would argue that I am not using the fastest one just to make the Blitter shine in this aspect.

I think I'll have a look at the AGT sprite creator.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri May 19, 2017 10:00 am

Anima wrote:Update: background tiles extraction works now.
Image


this is absolutely beautiful !!!! I'm at work, and i don't have access to irfanview, how many colors there are in here ?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Fri May 19, 2017 11:07 am

dlfrsilver wrote:I'm at work, and i don't have access to irfanview, how many colors there are in here ?

Code: Select all

identify -format "%k\n" tiles.png
...says 551 colours.

Some colours might not be correct so this most likely only an estimate number.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby chlu600 » Fri May 19, 2017 1:43 pm

This project is really interesting to follow. Great work Anima!

The background tiles above, is this the tiles for every level?
I suppose it's.

I think you need to at least create a color palette for every level. I can see troubles to change color during a level, coz it will affect code you don't want to change. But it should be done when loading a new level.

It'll be hard anyway to create an optimal 16-color palete for only one level and it's sprites.

The best possible result without too much work would be to do a color analysis of the graphics for each level. Perhaps it's possible to do minor color changes in the graphics manually for better handling of importans colors that's used seldom.

Looking forward to follow the progress in this project.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri May 19, 2017 2:40 pm

Yes that's what i noticed too. The unified palette is just overbig. the palette must only concern the actual level + enemies.

same way, each boss is always alone on screen, only the horrible slug has some minions, but those are in the palette :)
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Fri May 19, 2017 11:38 pm

chlu600 wrote:It'll be hard anyway to create an optimal 16-color palete for only one level and it's sprites.

Yes indeed. I think I've found a good one. Actually it's the "DawnBringers 16 colours palette":
Image

Here are some remapped MAME screenshots using the palette:
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage

dml wrote:Great progress - this looks amazing!

Thanks Doug! I hope that I can squeeze everything into the 4 MB of the STE.
:cheers:

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Sat May 20, 2017 12:07 am

Anima wrote:
chlu600 wrote:It'll be hard anyway to create an optimal 16-color palete for only one level and it's sprites.

Yes indeed. I think I've found a good one.
:cheers:


Holy Moley! That looks fantastic!

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby mpattonm » Sat May 20, 2017 5:46 am

Superb!

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dml » Sat May 20, 2017 5:47 am

That's an impressive universal palette (DawnBringer). I notice it doesn't match STE rgb bitdepth as the values use all 8 bits of R,G,B where the STE has only 4 bits. Did you have to edit the values further or did you just let it quantise down to 4? I guess quantising would be enough since its already very well distributed.

And have you considered interlacing this palette to get it up to 5 effective bits? If you alternate every 2nd palette index (high/low on alternate fields) it should keep the flicker minimal, unless one colour dominates at any time - but that's about the best you can do without requiring more gfx of course.

Anyway this looks cool - the palette really works with the art!


I have recently coded a new palette generator algorithm/tool which improves on previous attempts but as usual it depends on availability of input graphics (like lots of screengrabs and sprite sheets). While it does produce very optimal superpalettes, I'm not sure how results would compare with a 'psychologically optimal' palette like this one. At least, if *this* palette hadn't worked out so well I would soon have been suggesting to try it :D But this does look good...


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