Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

All about demos on the Falcon, TT & clones

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Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Atari030 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:13 am

Afternoon Gents, I've been catching up with a ton of STE demos',filling the MegaSTE up and decided to have a gander at Falcon demos for my birds. I was quite surprised at the small number of recent posts on the subject. I have 2 Falc's I'd like to see work, #1 is CT2 with 14/128MB ram and 68882 and the #2 is stock TOS 4.01, 68882 and 14MB ram. I'm interested in TT030 demos too. TOS 3.06, 2/4MB Ram to play on.

So what is everyone's standout for 030 based Falcons? What have I been missing out on?

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Ragstaff » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:10 am

This might be one place to look if you haven't already!
You might want to spend some quality time checking all of them out after the next RWC upset occurs on Friday - Namibia to beat the All Blacks ;-)

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Atari030 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:23 am

Good luck with that, Tom. The AB's already had their scare. :D

I've been through the lists, some of them I remember of old but I was a bit interested in what tickled peoples fancies and what pushed the gear.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby alexh » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:00 am

Ragstaff wrote:This might be one place to look if you haven't already!

Surely you want Falcon Demo's sorted by popularity or Falcon Demo's sorted by thumbs up.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Ragstaff » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:06 am

Atari030 wrote:Good luck with that, Tom. The AB's already had their scare. :D

I've been through the lists, some of them I remember of old but I was a bit interested in what tickled peoples fancies and what pushed the gear.

Not a demo, but I assume you've played with the latest BadMood release?
Also, entirely by coincidence Reinhold knocked on my door before, just as I opened this thread. He says hello.


alexh wrote:
Ragstaff wrote:This might be one place to look if you haven't already!

Surely you want Falcon Demo's sorted by popularity or Falcon Demo's sorted by thumbs up.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought OP was asking for what's been happening in recent times, the newer prods.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby dml » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:11 pm

I think Pouet could use a special icon for CT60 demos.

Worst offenders for ambiguity are Youtube channels though - most 060 based Atari/Amiga uploads don't even state spec (e.g. 060 prods, or whatever Amiga board was in vogue at the time). Viewers are left to figure it out by watching or by taking the time to look it up... The case for Amiga seems even more confusing with more HW variations.

I'd say the visual margin between older or lower-end 060 prods and newer or higher-end 030 prods is potentially.... blurry :) And so it should be, for new effort carry incentives on each.

It's probably much worse for those who aren't very familiar with the demos (or the especially machines, if it's not your platform) but still it caught me out a couple of times in the past - if briefly - so that must say something!


Of course for the insiders who know all the prods well isn't much of an issue - but I see plenty of evidence that people with modest interest and no actual machine have no clue what they are watching much of the time due to confusing specs. I had a hard time making sense of what I found after being away from Atari coding for years. And I'm still guessing 25% of the time re: Amiga :)

That wasn't a rant - I think anyone should be happy to write what they want for whatever machine they want - was just a bit surprised to find so much vagueness in this area for those who become interested to see and appreciate the results...

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Atari030 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:02 pm

Pretty much right re the blurry new 030 vs old 060, Doug. Doom, Quake and Wolf make for good Falcon fodder for sure. Quake proves the point and it seems a few newer games too.

I was hoping to get a few "you have to check this out...." kinda replies. Newer stuff is right on the agenda, Tom, tell Reinhold, G'day

Lost blubb still stacks up I see. Sonolumineszenz is another I remember well. It looks like the STe is getting a lot more demo love?

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby dml » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:15 pm

Atari030 wrote:Lost blubb still stacks up I see. Sonolumineszenz is another I remember well. It looks like the STe is getting a lot more demo love?


Yeah the STE is super popular now. For good reason I suppose :)

Will be nice to see more new Falcon stuff though - plenty of room there. Curious to see some SV related output too (so long as it's very clearly identified - and I'm sure it will be! :D )

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby christos » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:16 pm

dml wrote:I think Pouet could use a special icon for CT60 demos.

Worst offenders for ambiguity are Youtube channels though - most 060 based Atari/Amiga uploads don't even state spec (e.g. 060 prods, or whatever Amiga board was in vogue at the time). Viewers are left to figure it out by watching or by taking the time to look it up... The case for Amiga seems even more confusing with more HW variations.

I'd say the visual margin between older or lower-end 060 prods and newer or higher-end 030 prods is potentially.... blurry :) And so it should be, for new effort carry incentives on each.


It's even worse with UAE captures. Last time I used UAE, it didn't have a setting for emulating speeds of real amigas, so when you run an AGA demo, it goes to either full speed or A500 speed. It was quite confusing for me when I tried to see what an unaccelerated A1200 was capable of. Since it's been a while though, this might have been changed.

In the OP question, I really like Underscore, Delta, Hmmm, Sonoluminezsenze (or something), Autowaschen Verboten (needs rgb i think), EKO System Demo (needs RGB), Yepyha (I find it funny somehow).
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby dml » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:36 pm

What's the consensus these days on preferred Falcon monitor format for demos?

I've always been more keen on RGB for demos because it's like 'STE's big brother' mode and I just prefer the old CRT look for demos!

Some techniques just aren't practiceable on VGA because of differences in the way the display is generated. For example: I had a horrible time just trying to split the screen on VGA without crazy side effects. The resolutions available are also radically different and lock down choices on effects pretty early on. i.e. if you want a demo that works on both, then you have to make some hard decisions first and chuck a few ideas out.

VGA is also horribly chunky at the typical resolutions needed to do complex drawing fast (160...320) where RGB is not so harsh here.

However, most Falcon users will actually have been *using* the machine on a VGA, so for people not using emulators RGB would translate into major annoyance. There's also the 50/60hz thing, maybe less of an issue (I have noticed later TVs - esp. LCD/TFT jobs were a lot less tolerant of Hz bands than older ones).

I'd probably aim to support both where it doesn't cause bad compromises - but if I was to state a preference for viewing (over convenience) it would likely be RGB.

Thoughts appreciated :)

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Ragstaff » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:51 pm

dml wrote:Worst offenders for ambiguity are Youtube channels though - most 060 based Atari/Amiga uploads don't even state spec (e.g. 060 prods, or whatever Amiga board was in vogue at the time). Viewers are left to figure it out by watching or by taking the time to look it up... The case for Amiga seems even more confusing with more HW variations.

I'd say the visual margin between older or lower-end 060 prods and newer or higher-end 030 prods is potentially.... blurry :) And so it should be, for new effort carry incentives on each.

It's probably much worse for those who aren't very familiar with the demos (or the especially machines, if it's not your platform) but still it caught me out a couple of times in the past - if briefly - so that must say something!

A couple of times I've made reference to this phenomenon on youtube, with a sarcastic comment on some 060 or PPC demo of "And all this on hardware from 1985!". I go back expecting to have been flamed or people to have laughed at the joke, and find the comment has been upvoted and people are replying with "yeah, Amiga was decades ahead of its time! First multimedia computer!". Sometimes it's just not knowing, I also suspect some of the ambiguity is deliberate though, with fanboys happy to mislead others or let them think the wrong thing, whatever it takes to feed their need for validation of their platform from outsiders and young people seeing all this stuff for the first time.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby dml » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:07 pm

Ragstaff wrote:A couple of times I've made reference to this phenomenon on youtube, with a sarcastic comment on some 060 or PPC demo of "And all this on hardware from 1985!". I go back expecting to have been flamed or people to have laughed at the joke, and find the comment has been upvoted and people are replying with "yeah, Amiga was decades ahead of its time! First multimedia computer!".


Oh how we love the internetzzz. :)

Ragstaff wrote:Sometimes it's just not knowing, I also suspect some of the ambiguity is deliberate though, with fanboys happy to mislead others or let them think the wrong thing, whatever it takes to feed their need for validation of their platform from outsiders and young people seeing all this stuff for the first time.


That's a fair point - there may be a bit of obfuscation going on in some cases. But yes - most of it will just be not knowing/not being sure, or just oversight...

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby calimero » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:26 pm

christos wrote:It's even worse with UAE captures. Last time I used UAE, it didn't have a setting for emulating speeds of real amigas, so when you run an AGA demo, it goes to either full speed or A500 speed. It was quite confusing for me when I tried to see what an unaccelerated A1200 was capable of. Since it's been a while though, this might have been changed.

and because of exactly this reason I open thread at eab forum: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=69697
but it was hard to keep calm discussion :) but few amiga users point out vanilla Amiga 1200 demos in that thread.
---
I love Avena (Digital Chaos) demos on Falcon:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11224 - Enraged
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=17802 - Built in Obsolescence
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1177 - Sonolumineszenz (I guess it coz of Tat phenomenal music!)
and e.g.:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1180 - Are You Experienced? by EKO

---
I prefer RGB for Falcon demos/games.
and I also have VGA monitor for desktop ("serious") work.
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby calimero » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:48 pm

regarding lack of information about machine that run demo just look at this yt video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndy2lEzuPUA

THERE IS NO INFO about machine in description, NOT EVEN in info file of demo!

And comments on youtube are like this:
- "Can´t belive you did this on an Amiga with AGA. GREAT WORK. Greeting to Poland!"
- "I quess it's not a stock A1200 ;) ;) ;)"
- "So it's possible to make a masterpiece like that on a stock A1200 14mhz? Im seriously asking, becouse my last contact with amiga was with my stock A1200 in 1995. I am amazed what coders can do this days."
...

_____*** for comparison: vanilla Amiga 1200 WITH FastRAM: ***_____

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http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=895418&postcount=18
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby LaurentS » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:07 pm

Hi all,

I totally agree with Doug and Calimero here. I think it's unfair to compare the 68060 with tons of ram and an accelerated bus and the plain 68030 4 Mo falcon. They are 2 totally different computers.

When I see that the Black lotus demos are considered like Falcon demos with 500+ comments under pouet, I find it unfair for underscore demo or sonolum... which are real hardware falcon demos. And I also think it's unfair to read comments like "it's all you can do on a Falcon ..." from people who only compare 030 developments with 060 accelerating card ones. From my point of view, 68060 cards are not the real hardware (it's like using a raspberry pi or a PC, it's another computer, not a falcon).

These 2 worlds should be separated (after all the real hardware was the plain stock 030 by the time). It's just as if we were classifying ST demos and atari XE/XL demos in the same area (they are 2 totally different computers with different characteristics).

The little devs I do for Falcon will always run on a 4 Mo 030 standard falcon, both RGB and VGA. (OK, RGB is better for speed, but I think it's better to allow players or demo viewers to access to falcon stuff anyway the screen they use).

Have fun, stay (H)atari
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby penguin » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:37 pm

The Pouet popularity list favors multi-platform demos because they can potentially get more votes and comments. Personally, I love the classic Avena demos!
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby lotek_style » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:39 pm

Let me point you to this... we have some more Falcon stuff than the other website:

http://demozoo.org/productions/?platfor ... tion_type=
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby tat » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:33 pm

calimero wrote:http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1177 - Sonolumineszenz (I guess it coz of Tat phenomenal music!)


I'm glad people liked the Avena demos. It was Tommy who did the amazing music of course.

From the little I've seen recently, I think there's still scope to push the Falcon, as dml has shown. It's still a very interesting machine.

IMHO If you like something, it doesn't really matter if other people don't agree with you. Just enjoy it for what it is

(it's taken me about 40 years to learn this ;))

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby CiH » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:58 pm

I'm glad people liked the Avena demos. It was Tommy who did the amazing music of course.

Well Sono' did after all set the benchmark from 1997 to 2001 :mrgreen: - Tat is an incredibly talented person, whose talent is only surpassed by his modesty.

I agree with the main point, that unless you are very familiar with the target hardware and all of its different aftermarket configurations, it can get confusing very quickly for the non or semi-initiated.

At the same time, any discussion about subdividing hardware categories on Pouet, well it took forever to sort out the ZX Spectrum vs 50 million East Bloc clones situation. And after all that, the silly drama's and flame wars in Cyrillic script still rumble on...
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby dml » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:14 pm

CiH wrote:Tat is an incredibly talented person, whose talent is only surpassed by his modesty.


I can only second this sentiment - I remember very well seeing those demos for the first time and leaving an impression, when I was already coding for Falcon regularly. Seeing complete, polished releases of that quality for F030 was a big thing. It was also a massive amount of work to put something like that together - and still would be, even now.

CiH wrote:At the same time, any discussion about subdividing hardware categories on Pouet, well it took forever to sort out the ZX Spectrum vs 50 million East Bloc clones situation. And after all that, the silly drama's and flame wars in Cyrillic script still rumble on...


I guessed there might be a long history of arguments around this topic which I have not seen even a fraction of - so hopefully I didn't disturb the Kraken there :) I'll leave it alone for now.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby CiH » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:26 pm

I guessed there might be a long history of arguments around this topic which I have not seen even a fraction of - so hopefully I didn't disturb the Kraken there :) I'll leave it alone for now.

No Kraken disturbed, no worries. This is a quiet and civilised place. :cheers:
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Atari030 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:26 am

It is a bit of a minefield alright, in light of all this I'll have to drag my A4000, CD32 and A1200 out and fire up some AGA love too. Falcons first though.

Avena demo's always impress me. EKO system rocks, I'd not seen that one. I'll check the rest of there's out, cheers calimero.

Interesting discussion on the merits of VGA vs RGB. TBH I prefer VGA but RGB doesn't annoy me on LCD bar the aspect ratio. I prefer the crisp display but with my widget switch box I can switch at the drop of a hat anyway.

Has anything been written specifically to take advantage of the CT2? What about TT ram? I don't think it has. Doom certainly benefits from it though.

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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby christos » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:00 am

Don't break the oath by DHS is a centurbo II demo.
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby calimero » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:44 am

tat wrote:
calimero wrote:http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1177 - Sonolumineszenz (I guess it coz of Tat phenomenal music!)


I'm glad people liked the Avena demos. It was Tommy who did the amazing music of course.

thanks for correction. I know that it's Tommy music but it seems that I wrote post too fast.
Just to seize opportunity and to thank you for such phenomenal Falcon demos! They bring many hours of pure joy! :cheers:

@Atari030 you are welcome :)

some more:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=15718 - Joint Venture by Absence
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=17786 - Obnoxious by Inter
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5201 - Lost Blubb by Lazer (different than anything else :))
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=16426 - Beams by The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation (TT demo also)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=17781 - Any Colour You Like by Shadows (extra atmosphere)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=8582 - Xperience by Abstract (extra "speedy" but VGA only)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=15917 - Cycedelic Knockout by mugwumps (extra music by Tommy)
and DHS demos from 90s - they have specific touch and lot of tunnels :)

ax, so many memories... :D
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Re: Best or favourite Falcon Demo's

Postby Atari030 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:40 am

Cheers guys, looks like its going to be another late night. 8)

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