Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:01 am

AtariZoll, you made a big mistake. You will see.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:05 am

Mikro: I don't insult. Actions taken by people insult. If you can not see who wants here something pretty much irreal, and who is one who can judge it, then please don't talk about offense. I was insulted, offended here zillion times, and I did not ask ban, did not talked to those people how bad they are.
Interesting is that you don't ask apologize here for serious threats - should I think that you are objective at all ? Do something useful here instead breathing on my neck. As I see, you know some things well.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby mikro » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:33 am

You see, that's the thing. I (and many others) tell you that you do offend/insult and you just say "No, I don't! Let's focus on something else!" (short version :)) and you think the matter is closed. I of course I can't force you any point of view, just saying what I see. I personally like your work in many areas but that still doesn't give you the right to call people idiots, technically inferior or stupid.

And of course I agree that Zarchos has crossed the line of politeness in far more explicit way, yes. But that still doesn't make your way of interaction acceptable.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:41 am

mikro wrote: ... to call people idiots, technically inferior or stupid. ...
.

Never called someone here idiot, stupid - not forum member - maybe called some Atari designers stupid - but rather I called solution stupid, once even megastupid :lol: .
Technically inferior - yes. Now, is that insult or just straight talk - I guess that it depends from where you live.
I was accused by Ijor often for low knowledge, not straight, and usually he was wrong and even arrogant sometimes. But he is allowed, me not - that's the real problem here. Double standards. I'm not here for some nice chit-chat, but to talk about solutions, experience, what is worth to do ...
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:06 am

Watch your words, all of you. Matters will be dealt with. :oops:

Now back on topic

I googled a bit on the Adlib programming model and foudn this document here:
http://www.shipbrook.net/jeff/sb.html

It says the Adlib registers are write only so from the parallel port view of the device it seems only write access from PC/ST->sound board.

In this case the slight deviations on the ST parallel port in comparison to a DOS PC parallel port are probably not so much of an issue.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:40 am

AtariZoll wrote:The reason that I talked about PCM is cample playback - pos: 15min 40secs in YT video.


Is it so hard to admit a mistake? Even the TOPIC says "OPL2". You did not know what OPL2 was and slagged the idea based on an assumption. And was wrong. But instead of just saying, "oh, sorry, I made a mistake", you go on an on trying to make it look like you're the one that KNOWS.

Yes, we all know that you have skills. But honestly you need to work on your attitude. You seem to take offence by the fact that there are people out there that does not share your views and ideas, and that means that they are just wrong. That is not how the world works.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:54 am

OK, my last words here: this OPL2 is just obsolete. Questionable ST port compatibility. Some proposed here MP3 playback module for ST. So, my opinion is that it would be much better expansion, what can do much more than this OPL2, and price should not be bigger. Additionally, there are better places for connecting it than parallel port. Now, you may say that I do undermining. I'm for community interest, not to please some ideas which are just bad by my knowledge and experience. I did not say 'my opinion' intentionally. Opinion is just useless without background and experience.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:14 am

Back on topic

Daniel Ilgen told me via FB:
"Won't work on the ST unfortunately - we are missing Autofeed and Init on the Parallel Port. (OPL2LPT is using the same schematic as this: http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/adlib/adlib_en.php)"
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby insane » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:10 pm

I've checked the schematics again - wiring Busy to Init (IOW) seems to be the only thing we need - you don't need to read from the OPL2 - so this way we could use the parallel port OPL2!
Already ordered the OPL2LPT - I'm excited to see how it compares to my C64 SFX Sound Expander (modified to OPL2) connected to my Falcon's Cartridge Port
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:26 pm

insane wrote:I've checked the schematics again - wiring Busy to Init (IOW) seems to be the only thing we need - you don't need to read from the OPL2 - so this way we could use the parallel port OPL2!
Already ordered the OPL2LPT - I'm excited to see how it compares to my C64 SFX Sound Expander (modified to OPL2) connected to my Falcon's Cartridge Port


I thought something similar, but as I am no 'expert' as this Mister AtariZoll so politely stated, I refrained from posting.
I'll add the following :
- I posted in Atari Music.
Falcon, and TT are Atari machines, until further notice. I believe its parallel port doesn't suffer the same limitations than the ST's.
- I never talked about games.
I have not narrowed the usage of this add-on to anything. I simply brought the info of its existence and availability. Nothing more.
I talked about the device itself. Whoever will find it interesting will use it for the purposes he / she finds it interesting for.
- Arrogantly declaring it is outdated is beyond the scope of this thread : this is egotic proof of a sick mind who believes his opinion is the general opinion, or should be the the general opinion.
It is not mine. For 35 € facts are that it is an interesting add-on.
I am not the only person loving specific sonorities, and OPL2 has something still appealing to many.
The fact you AtariZoll might have created stuff for the Ataris, honestly, I wipe a well known part of my anatomy with it :lol:
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2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:59 pm

insane wrote:I've checked the schematics again - wiring Busy to Init (IOW) seems to be the only thing we need - you don't need to read from the OPL2 - so this way we could use the parallel port OPL2!


If you need to read you can always use the serial port handshake signals.

insane wrote:Already ordered the OPL2LPT - I'm excited to see how it compares to my C64 SFX Sound Expander (modified to OPL2) connected to my Falcon's Cartridge Port


That's the spirit :)
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:02 pm

AtariZoll wrote:OK, my last words here: this OPL2 is just obsolete.


Unlike the ST you mean? ;) "Obsolete" is the *essence* of this hobby. If it wasn't obsolete, it wouldn't be retro computing.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:13 pm

joska wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:OK, my last words here: this OPL2 is just obsolete.

Unlike the ST you mean? ;) "Obsolete" is the *essence* of this hobby. If it wasn't obsolete, it wouldn't be retro computing.

Sure, that's why people now using 8GB SD and CF cards instead some 60 MB noise maker. You are just so inefficient :lol:
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:24 pm

You don't get it, do you? Why do you still waste time on these obsolete, inefficient machines?
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:35 pm

joska wrote:You don't get it, do you? Why do you still waste time on these obsolete, inefficient machines?

Good question. Atari ST is now obsolete, But it is not inefficient - I like how sharing of RAM between video and CPU bus is solved. For it's time, it was beast, very fast and cheap computer. ACSI port is good thing, although I would like some general expansion port on ST. And so on ...
My answer is: I don't waste time - I do useful things for many people, thousands of. It is always according to current technology available at low price.
On the SW side - I filling gaps - doing support for moving games on mass storage. Doing some research in HW, TOS - and that's not over - there are still many undiscovered things in ST(E), TT, Falcon HW, SW. Obsolete or not, even after 32 years there is still what to discover, even to fix (remember mixfix ?).
There is still lot of projects to finish. Not to mention that it keeps me fit.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Obsolete or not, even after 32 years there is still what to discover, even to fix (remember mixfix ?).


Exactly! That makes it even harder to understand your attitude towards other people's projects. Some times it looks like the only worthy projects are the ones you come up with yourself. You are spending time on basically pointless exercises, try to understand that other people also find pleasure in doing exactly that.

Personally, I spend time on punching holes in a piece of paper 25 meter away, using a hand-held device that propels a small projectile faster than the speed of sound (also called a "pistol"). The objective is to get the holes as close to the center of the paper as possible. And when done, the paper is thrown away! How pointless isn't that? Not to mention how inefficient it is. Let's face it, there are more efficient tools out there if all you want is holes in a piece of paper.

Also, every autumn I also join tens of thousands of other people and goes into the woods and mountains with a rifle on my back in the hope of killing a deer. Why? It doesn't make sense. I can buy meat in the store. And most of the time I don't even *see* a deer. And this I spend a lot of money on - I could hike for free if I left the rifle at home. This is stupid!

And the most idiotic one - motorcycles. First of all, I have five. Three of them are restoration projects. I spend money and time in a cold garage fixing obsolete, eastern-european junk from the fifties. And when the bloody thing finally works I have a slow, dangerous vehicle which leaves me exposed to rain and cold weather. Why??? I have a car FFS! A car with seatbelts, airbags, heater, heated seats, a stereo, GPS, cruise control, room for goods and passengers and better mileage than any of my motorcycles.

Hobbies are not meant to be rational, efficient or even make sense. The only requirement is to have fun and relax. Even though you don't understand why some people would want to try an OPL2 synth with their ST, you don't need to talk it down. Instead, use your knowledge and a few minutes of your time and give the poor guy some useful advice. Or - if the subject doesn't interest you - leave it alone.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:50 pm

Wrong, wrong ... If I do alone some project, then it is complete different case than here, where is asked for contribution of others.
And asked for opinion. I gave mine, and then some silly talk started by Joska in first place.
Do this, but don't expect that everyone will be excited and especially don't expect that someone with knowledge will spend time on patching Atari SW for it. What I did was basically warning about expectable problems.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:55 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Wrong, wrong ... If I do alone some project, then it is complete different case than here, where is asked for contribution of others.
And asked for opinion. I gave mine, and then some silly talk started by Joska in first place.
Do this, but don't expect that everyone will be excited and especially don't expect that someone with knowledge will spend time on patching Atari SW for it. What I did was basically warning about expectable problems.



No : you stated your opinion as being the only one to have.
You bashed the thread from the beginning.
You lied about the content of my post, including its title (which has a question mark).
You bashed OPL2 as though your opinion was a standard : which is utterly laughable.
You named me, the OP, an ' 'expert' ' to laugh at me. This is an insult.
I'll do everything to have you pay this offense.
You deserve nothing but despise.
And yes you should be banned : you are a deplorable stain in the Atari community ; and as back in time as I can read your previous posts or threads here.
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2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Calm down man. You are really over top. In any normal forum someone would be banned already, some 10 posts back. You can not insult me.
And my opinion is not standard, almost never is. Saying truth is not insult.
But I think that I will finish here in day-two, not because insults, threats, but because forum leadership is so poor. If there is leadership at all.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:12 pm

Zarchos - let it go. Seriously. Threats does not help.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby spiny » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:40 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Calm down man. You are really over top. In any normal forum someone would be banned already, some 10 posts back. You can not insult me.
And my opinion is not standard, almost never is. Saying truth is not insult.
But I think that I will finish here in day-two, not because insults, threats, but because forum leadership is so poor. If there is leadership at all.


you and your posts get the most complaints on this forum, you are sailing close to the edge. Why not step back a while and just read, rather than telling people they are wrong all the time.

yours, A China Town Mod.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby ctirad » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Guys, please tell me why you want to bother yourself with an unsupported LPT interface when you can use MIDI out and to have instant support from any existing ST application? There were (and some probably still are) available OPL/Wavetable chips or even complete cards ( http://members.home.nl/c.kersten/ ), that directly accepts MIDI at TTL level. Everything you need is one optoisolator (and maybe 74xx gate for the signal conditioning) and the proper power supply voltages?

EDIT: You can even buy it here http://www.serdashop.com/ :lol:

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:25 pm

Yes, and even better - there are OPL emulators for Windows available. That way you don't have to bother with the obsolete and unsupported ST either!
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby cb » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:00 pm

AtariZoll wrote:But I think that I will finish here in day-two, not because insults, threats, but because forum leadership is so poor. If there is leadership at all.


Bye bye 8)
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:09 pm

cb wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:But I think that I will finish here in day-two, not because insults, threats, but because forum leadership is so poor. If there is leadership at all.


Bye bye 8)


Seconded.
Please try to use delay on your web cam to post a picture on FB of yourself while you are still warm and dancing at the end of the rope.
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured


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