Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

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alexh
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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby alexh » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:38 pm

farvardin wrote:If you wish, you can try to guess the correct association.

1) Atari ST
2) Emulator
3) MiST

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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby farvardin » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:50 pm

I'll wait for some other proposals, then I'll tell the answer ;)

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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby joska » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:34 am

troed wrote:There are several ways in which Hatari doesn't sound like an original machine. The first version of 7an's song for our STNICCC demo "Closure" had to be scrapped altogether. He wrote the song(s) in Hatari which apparently always plays all voices in phase, while on actual hardware they fall in and out of phase (sometimes cancelling each other out completely).


I've experienced exactly this problem when using Paolo Simoe's enhanced Lance-player. Sounds excellent on Hatari, but on real hardware voices would go out of phase periodically and cancel each other out when played in mono. It seems to happen with songs that use BPM. BPM use the LMC intensively, could it be a problem with the LMC?

I haven't tried it on MiST yet.
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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby troed » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:07 am

joska wrote:I've experienced exactly this problem when using Paolo Simoe's enhanced Lance-player. Sounds excellent on Hatari, but on real hardware voices would go out of phase periodically and cancel each other out when played in mono. It seems to happen with songs that use BPM. BPM use the LMC intensively, could it be a problem with the LMC?

I haven't tried it on MiST yet.


I verified the behavior on both STE and ST, it was exactly the same.

/Troed

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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby Chevalier » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:16 pm

Hello,

My feeling:

"Wake Up":
1 PC emu, definitly a softwarish quality to it...
2 More punchy, more defined, more alife so i will say atari...
3 Myst, sound good too.......

"Silisium Skogen":
1 Myst
2 Atari, this one little more alife....

Overall thez all sound pretty close.... with pc emu little behind.... maybe Im all wrong héhé.... let's see........

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby farvardin » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:53 am

@chevalier & @alexh :
some correct answers, but not everything was found... I'll wait a couple more answers or days, and I'll tell you the result ;)

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Re: some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST

Postby joska » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:48 pm

farvardin wrote:If you wish, you can try to guess the correct association.


I can't tell them apart.
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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:34 pm

> He wrote the song(s) in Hatari which apparently always plays all voices in phase

Was this with Old UAE, or WinUAE, CPU core version of Hatari?

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby alexh » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:35 pm

farvardin wrote:@chevalier & @alexh :
some correct answers, but not everything was found... I'll wait a couple more answers or days, and I'll tell you the result ;)

I can only swap two of my guesses around. I wasn't too sure in the first place.

1) Atari ST
2) MiST
3) Emulator

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby farvardin » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:08 pm

I wanted to post the results, but the host is down. I'll reupload them elsewhere soon...

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby Chevalier » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:03 am

Yes would be fine to know... ty

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby farvardin » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:21 pm

sorry, I still hoped the host would be up again, but it seems they stopped working. So I reuploaded everything elsewhere. It's a bit late now... :(

Here are the results (from my first list):

"Wake Up":
1: MiST
2: Hatari emulator
3: Atari ST

"Silisium Skogen":
1: MiST
2 Atari ST

Here are the new links (at the end) :

Silisium_Skogen_01 = mist = http://www.uploadmusic.org/MUSIC/377511450645913.mp3 = http://picosong.com/EMLB

Silisium_Skogen_02 = ste = http://www.uploadmusic.org/MUSIC/9101731450646039.mp3 = http://picosong.com/EMLM


yerzmyey_-_wake_up_01 = mist = http://www.uploadmusic.org/MUSIC/4980641450646178.mp3 = http://picosong.com/EMV3/

Yerzmyey-Wake_up_02 = ste = http://www.uploadmusic.org/MUSIC/932881450646291.mp3 = http://picosong.com/EM2s

Yerzmyey-Wake_up_03 = hatari = http://www.uploadmusic.org/MUSIC/6660961450647116.mp3 = http://picosong.com/EM2B/

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby Total Eclipse » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:00 am

Wow. I can't really hear any discernible difference. Cool test, thanks for doing it.
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby alexh » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:41 am

You certainly could with the other files I was sure.

Are these 100% the same sound files?

One was most definitely filtered sounding (which I thought was the Ste) and the other two were very crisp as emulators can be.

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby troed » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:50 am

7an of SYNC's "Smblylin" played in Hatari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBufLphwVlg

Same song captured directly from STE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0BzvXA0_ro

Listen to the hi-hats, among other things.

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby fiveofive » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:11 am

I think the sound emulation of STEEM is not bad at all, but there are some differences to the real thing. I remember that the DMA-sample frequencies were not the same as on real hardware and there are quite some other timer-effect differences. But for simple "prototyping" it's totally fine I think.

However I was suprised by the accuracy of the sound emulation of later HATARI versions. Since some versions, its very close to the original both regarding Timer fx and STE features, like including LMC emulation. I am not sure if it was really intended, but on my STE I have some annoying "noise/click" when the overall volume is too high and even this is emulated :) All these impressive changes made me to totaly switch to HATARI some years ago.

Hippy Dave: I realized the difference between ST and STE output emulation. It's quite an amazing difference, I wonder if it's really representive, but it has to be considered, e.g. when recording a WAV.

From my experience, the phasing issue Troed mentioned exists indeed and can be a problem in few cases (e.g. I got no phasing in emulator, but on real hardware and thus making the sound waving).

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Re: Test your listening skills (some questions about YM2149F vs emulators vs MIST)

Postby farvardin » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:00 am

alexh wrote:You certainly could with the other files I was sure.

Are these 100% the same sound files?

One was most definitely filtered sounding (which I thought was the Ste) and the other two were very crisp as emulators can be.


I hope they are the same! I prepared 5 different files and uploaded them on the previous host. And I did the same on the other host. I've listened to them again and I'm pretty sure they are the same as the first time: for the "Wake Up" sentence at the beginning, the STE sounds the more "live", it's quite wild. I've used the recording from http://sndhrecord.atari.org/ogg/Yerzmyey/ (I've just normalised the sounds so it wouldn't be louder than the other versions)
The MiST version sounds more synthetic, like the voice is shaking, and the hatari is quite weak (btw it sounds a bit like the voice says "weak up"). What is strange is when playing the hatari version another time, it sounded better, closer to the original. Now this was for the sampled voice. Except for this, the rest of the music sounds quite similar to my ears.


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