A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

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yerzmyey
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A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Hi guyz, I'd need Your help, if possible.

A dude asked me for music however on the start he wants a sample.

I make it with MusicMon, there's written it takes RAW files.
The problem is, when I save RAW unsigned file, there is only a nise under MusicMon.
When I save as IFF file - the MusicMon plays it PROPERLY.

I'd use the IFF and it would be as simple as that but......... IFF is not RAW and on the start of the sample, MusicMon plays a short noise which is probably a header of the IFF file.

There's no sample-editor on MM, so I can't remove the short noise.

Can anybody help me?

Thx,
Y
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby Mug UK » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:48 pm

Can you not remove the header with Soundlab?
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:51 pm

Hmmmmmm, I cannot see it on DHS...?






____________EDIT_______
Seems like I found it: http://sites.google.com/site/stessentia ... edirects=0
Will test.
Thx!



.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:02 pm

Sadly it doesn't work, it plays some total noise. :(
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby Mal7921 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:19 pm

What sample format do you need? I used to convert from all sorts of formats including signed and unsigned WAV files for VoIP telephone systems, and some of those systems are finniky. Don't get the format exact and all you got was noise!

IFF needs the header to let the player know how to handle the sample, remove the header and you lose the information. However as with most standards, there are different standards for the standard!

Let me know what you need and I'll see what I can do. Feel free to PM me here or at AMN
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby nativ » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:36 pm

I vaguely recall some header issues..

If you can find a tracker that loads IFF on the Atari then resave? possibly audio sculpture? or try convert with 525!
most MOD trackers will be able to edit the sample.
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby !cube » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:43 am

I'm guessing there's a simple explanation to this but why not convert the sample on the PC? There's loads of different sample editors available.
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby Ato » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:29 am

I believe that sox is available on the ST. It is the swiss army knife for audio file conversion.

Cheers,
T.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:11 am

Mal7921 wrote:What sample format do you need?

The problem is - I do not know what format I need.
The MM instruction says: "unsigned 8bit RAW".
OK. Done.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOISE.

So - let's do test. Various RAWs. Noise. WAV maybe? No. Noise.
OK, let's approach from Amiga side. IFF.
Boom. It works. Sound exactly like it should.
But - there is a short noise on the beginning. Supposedly the header of IFF.
No sample-editor on MM, so I can't remove it.
Here is the IFF: http://yerzmyey.republika.pl/wakeup2.iff




!cube:

> I'm guessing there's a simple explanation to this but why not convert the sample on the PC? There's loads of different sample editors available.
--------------
Yes, You're right and that's what I actually did.
But the problem isn't there.
The problem is, MM - which is supposed to accepr unsigned 8bit mono RAWs - doesn't do it.
Instead it plays IFFs correctly. But IFFs are not RAWs. So there is the initial short noise. Adn we have some insane circle here, heh.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby Marcer » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:31 am

well... save the digi as wav.. load it from music mon by click on load button but with right mouse key (instead of left normally). this is a bit hidden feature :)

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby nativ » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:38 am

I resaved it from Milkytracker after chopping the click
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http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:16 pm

Marcer wrote:well... save the digi as wav.. load it from music mon by click on load button but with right mouse key (instead of left normally). this is a bit hidden feature :)
// Marcer


I did like You said but there is still the header (or whatever it is) audiable. It's smaller indeed but it's there. :(
But seems like that's what I will use finally. Hm.



Nativ:

> I resaved it from Milkytracker after chopping the click
----------------
Thx man, I do appreciate the help, but sadly it doesn't work. I'm not sure if You get the problem: it's still IFF. So MM instantly adds another short noise at the start of the sample. You know what I mean; it seems like a bug. Hence I'd need a sample-editor inside the MM. Which is obviously not possible. :)
So I thought maybe I do something bad and maybe anybody encountered this problem before - and solved it somehow.

Well, I'll try to save the sample on another editor, not a CoolEdit. Hm. We will see.
Or rather - hear. ;)
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby nativ » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:23 pm

the original source format is?

I think what is happening is when you convert, the old header data is left and a new header tapped on the front! voila! NOISE!

I have come across this before... maybe The sample routines in TCB tracker or Noisetracker can help? if you get the sample to an AVR then convert to a raw..?
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby Ato » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:37 am

The original source format is:

Code: Select all

thomas@fisch Atari 3: soxi wakeup2.iff

Input File     : 'wakeup2.iff' (8svx)
Channels       : 1
Sample Rate    : 16000
Precision      : 8-bit
Duration       : 00:00:00.90 = 14395 samples ~ 67.4766 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 14.5k
Bit Rate       : 129k
Sample Encoding: 8-bit Signed Integer PCM


Attached are two versions, one is signed 8 Bit, the other one is unsigned 8 Bit. Guaranteed no additional header data. If your program still cannot play one of those, your program is broken or expects something different than raw.

You simply should have used sox as I wrote earlier.

Hth,
T.

wakeup2-mono-signed-8bit-16000.raw.doc

wakeup2-mono-unsigned-8bit-16000.raw.doc
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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:13 am

Ato: thx a lot, I wil test it all. It's kind of You to help.

I was wondering btw. MM has some MIDI implementation.
is it possible that when I connect two my 520STs and press PLAY on one - will it automatically start also playing MM on the second ST? Anybody tried it?

Greetz,
Y
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:18 pm

Works perfectly fine, thank You a lot, Ato - and thank You all guyz, for the help!
I don't know if my the first SidSound song will be OK but I will do my best.
Greetzzzzzzzz,
Y
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Tue May 01, 2012 3:26 pm

OK then, so I officially made my very first YM synthetic song for Atari ST. :) Thx to You guyz, btw. ;)
Sadly I can't release it right now, as it's for SillyVenture party, heheh.
But You know me - italo-disco lives forever. ;)
Thx again.
Greetz,
Y
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby nativ » Tue May 01, 2012 3:28 pm

is it christmas Ital Disco?
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Tue May 01, 2012 3:45 pm

Hehe, seems like more kinda 1th May Workers' Day Italo disco, hahaha. ;) ;)
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby evil » Sun May 06, 2012 8:28 am

Hi,

I'm late as always, but for future use, here are some tips.

RAW is not a file format per say, but only a header-less sample file.
The sample data can be either signed (-128 to 127) or unsigned (0 to 255).
Amiga and STe uses signed data natively, while most ST trackers and sample players want unsigned data. That's because they use a look-up table on the ST, and it's about one second more work to make that work with signed sample datas, so of course the coders chose unsigned :-)

An excellent utility on the Atari is 525, it can convert between all possible variations (little endian (Intel), big endian (motorola), signed, unsigned, stereo, mono, sample rate ...) and it does it with good quality. And of course you can select a number of header-types or no header (RAW).

Crazy Q's Beatbox Mania library for ST chip trackers have 525 in the package, you can get the it here:

http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=29065
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=29068



yerzmyey wrote:Hi guyz, I'd need Your help, if possible.

A dude asked me for music however on the start he wants a sample.

I make it with MusicMon, there's written it takes RAW files.
The problem is, when I save RAW unsigned file, there is only a nise under MusicMon.
When I save as IFF file - the MusicMon plays it PROPERLY.

I'd use the IFF and it would be as simple as that but......... IFF is not RAW and on the start of the sample, MusicMon plays a short noise which is probably a header of the IFF file.

There's no sample-editor on MM, so I can't remove the short noise.

Can anybody help me?

Thx,
Y

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Again, with thanks to all of You guyz, for help,
it's been released now, of course. I forgot to mention.
Here it is -
http://chipmusic.org/yerzmyey/music/wak ... tari-520st
Greetzzzz (and merry Christmas ;) ),
Yerz
Last edited by yerzmyey on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.

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Re: A question of MUSIC_MON (heeelp!)

Postby yerzmyey » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:22 pm

Ah, and for some future readers:

MusicMon 2.5 (final) uses samples in format:

RAW, mono, *********signed************, 8 bit.
Nice can be samplerate 16000Hz (not too big file, not to crap sound).

MM accepts up to 20 Kb. If the sample is bigger, then MM will load (and use) first 20Kb of the file.

Thx all,
Y
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
No good deed will escape unpunished.


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