Atari ST Internal IDE Interface POLL

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atarionly
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Atari ST Internal IDE Interface POLL

Postby atarionly » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:37 am

I recently have noticed a renewed interest in a Atari ST IDE interface. What Im looking for is who would be interested in purchasing a IDE Interface for their Atari ST.

Questions:

1) Which ST (i.e. STF, STE,Mega, or STFM) would you be installing the interface in?
2) Do you have TOS 2.06 or would you also need a TOS upgrade?
3) Would you install the interface yourself or need someone to install it?
4) Would you install inside the ST case or external?
5) Would you be willing to pay a deposit far a interface?
6) Where are you located?
7) How many would you order?
8) How is the price of $120 US Dollars shipping included in the USA?
9) Would you need Hard drive software?

The STE version simply plugs into most STEs.


If you feel this is something that you need or interested in please answer the above questions.


You can email me or post your answers here for all to read.

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Postby unseenmenace » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:34 am

I would most definitely be interested in one:-

1) For my 4MB STE.
2) I don't have TOS2.06. Is an upgrade necessary?
3) I would be happy installing it myself.
4) I would prefer an internal unit.
5) I would happily pay a deposit.
6) I am in the UK.
7) I would probably only want 1 but maybe 2.
8) Price is reasonable. About £60 plus postage I think.
9) I have AHDI on my Falcon but there are better HDD drivers right?

Sounds good though
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Postby Mug UK » Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:52 am

Same here .. live in the UK and would like to add a proper internal drive to my MegaSTE2 with 4MB and (currently) an external 90MB drive running from a Power Computing ICD-based interface.

Price seems OK too .. IDE drives of 1/2 Gig being cheap enough to be given away with breakfast cereals these days.
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Postby PaulB » Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:54 am

I too would love one of these.

1) 4mb Mega STE
2) TOS2.05 currently but could upgrade
3) I could install myself (with instructions)
4) Internal is best (and less messy)
5) I too would pay a deposit
6) In UK also
7) Just the 1 unit needed
8) Price seems just about right
9) I wouldn't need hard drive software

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Postby revpig » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:04 pm

I'd go for one. Answers similar to everyone else!

1) 4mb STe x2
2) TOS 2.06 currently installed on one, 1.62 on other
3) DIY as long as install is documented
4) Internal
5) deposit ok
6) UK
7) 1 or 2
8) Price seems just about right
9) SW is pretty easy to come by but would be useful

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Postby Gryzor » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:12 am

1) Most probably a 4096 STe.
2) Mmm... what TOS did the MegaST come with? If it was 2.06 then yes, in my MegaST. But it wouldn't be necessary to provide a TOS replacement since it can be loaded from disk... How much would it add to the cost?
3) Er... would you come over to Greece? :D
4) If it can be done, inside. There *is* room for a 2.5" disk anyway, isn't there?
5) To go towards the manufacturing? Probably, but how much?
6) Greece!
7) One would be enough I reckon!
:( Rather steep I think. Certainly not for the 'mass' market...
9) Easy to come by, but would be nice to have a floppy provided.

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Postby Greenious » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:15 am

2) I don't have TOS2.06. Is an upgrade necessary?


Yes & no. TOS 2 supports booting from IDE. TOS 1.x does not. If it is not something you need to do, you can still use the drive after loading the proper driver from floppy or another harddrive.

Added (edit):

For STE the TOS upgrade is easy, although requires soldering. (2 solderjumpers need to be moved) After that you just exchange the TOS chips.

For those interested, I still sell TOS upgrades. PM me, or look my post in the buy/sell forum.
Last edited by Greenious on Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bripilot » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:38 pm

1) 4 MB STe
2) Would need the upgrade, although I think I have it on software somewhere.
3) Self Installed
4) Either/Or...preferably inside, but outside would be fine as well.
5) Depends on the size of deposit, and if I could get a written guarantee of deposit refund if the interface was not delivered in a certain amount of time.
6) Midwest, USA
7) Probably only one
8) If that's what it costs, that's what it costs... a little high to me, but worth it, I'm sure.
9) Probably... I have ICD software, but nothing beyond that...
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Postby frost » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:44 pm

1) 4 MB Ste
2) I need TOS 2.06
3) self-installed
4) inside
5) deposit ok
6) France
7) 1
8) ok
9) I already have HDDriver
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Postby ijor » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:03 pm

atarionly wrote:How is the price of $120 US Dollars


Greenious wrote:Yes & no. TOS 2 supports booting from IDE. TOS 1.x does not. If it is not something you need to do, you can still use the drive after loading the proper driver from floppy or another harddrive.


Wouldn't be possible at that price to implement an ACSI-IDE converter? So that it could be plug-in for any ST without requiring any TOS upgrade.

I was going to suggest an open-project for such a device. But if somebody wants to make a commercial project then better not to interfer with it.

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Postby Greenious » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:15 pm

ijor wrote:
atarionly wrote:How is the price of $120 US Dollars


Greenious wrote:Yes & no. TOS 2 supports booting from IDE. TOS 1.x does not. If it is not something you need to do, you can still use the drive after loading the proper driver from floppy or another harddrive.


Wouldn't be possible at that price to implement an ACSI-IDE converter? So that it could be plug-in for any ST without requiring any TOS upgrade.

I was going to suggest an open-project for such a device. But if somebody wants to make a commercial project then better not to interfer with it.


No such project going on Atari afaik.

But there are commercial SCSI-IDE adapters.

http://www.pc-pitstop.com/scsi_ide_adapters/

I doubt that an adapter specifically for Atari is economically sane to produce. Probably a lot cheaper to buy a SCSI interface for atari and use devices such as those above.

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Re: Atari ST Internal IDE Interface POLL

Postby Dark Willow » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:49 pm

I'm waiting on the ST Labs card, as that will offer 14mb RAM options as wel, and perhaps a CPU boost. BUt if that doesnt magae to make it out I'd be interested in this.


1) Which ST (i.e. STF, STE,Mega, or STFM) would you be installing the interface in?

STe with a tower case, ET4000 graphics upgrade (plugs into CPU) and 4mb RAM.

2) Do you have TOS 2.06 or would you also need a TOS upgrade?

Will already have TOS2.06

3) Would you install the interface yourself or need someone to install it?

It would depend on how complicated it is. If there is any soldering it will be somsone else since I *HATE* soldering!

4) Would you install inside the ST case or external?

Inside the tower.

5) Would you be willing to pay a deposit far a interface?

Yes, if the STLabs design were cancelled, I would place a deposit for this.

6) Where are you located?

UK

7) How many would you order?

Just one, I only have one Atari:(

8) How is the price of $120 US Dollars shipping included in the USA?

That is reasonable, I think.

9) Would you need Hard drive software?

I only have the basic AHDI at the moment, so probably, yes.
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Postby ijor » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:07 pm

Greenious wrote:I doubt that an adapter specifically for Atari is economically sane to produce. Probably a lot cheaper to buy a SCSI interface for atari and use devices such as those above.


Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the production cost of such a device be in the order of U$50 if made in reasonable quantities. I know that reasonable quantities can be a problem. But perhaps not really so much, considering the response seen in this thread. And a simple ACSI-SCSI host adapter is not so cheap.

Of course, production cost is one thing and developing cost is another. But an open-project can manage developing costs much easier than a commercial one. I’m not sure, but it might be even feasible a mixed open-commercial project. People here could contribute for the development, and then somebody would sell the finished product commercially, with some kind of gentlemen agreement. Such a device probably can’t be a DIY one anyway (will likely require modern components that you can’t solder by hand).

Well, don’t know. Perhaps I’m dreaming. But there are many ATARI hardware projects that perhaps are not feasible commercially, but they are if developed in other way. But again, I don’t want to interfere with any commercial initiative as the one that started this thread. Just thinking in loud voice.

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Postby Greenious » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:13 pm

ijor wrote:And a simple ACSI-SCSI host adapter is not so cheap.


Maybe not. But the Atari ACSI interface is a lot more like SCSI than IDE. (Actually, it is a premature version of SCSI)

I've seen DIY SCSI interfaces for atari, and they are not so expensive if you can make them yourself.

Also, I'd like to point out that more or less all Atari upgrades are DIY. There is no upgrade that fits inside the case of an atari that does not require soldering. The exceptions to this are few.

So the step from there to make an upgrade DIY is not that far.

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Postby atarionly » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:14 pm

This is not a commercial venture. Its a venture to try and take care of some atari users that do not have a hard drive for their ST. I found after I purchased the interface that it was the cheapest and easiest adapter on the market. After talking to the developer of the IDE interface he told me that he sold less than 100. And now no longer sells them or even manufactures them.

The interface will not be reproduced if people dont want it. Another interface is also going to be reproduce in the UK for 60 pounds. thats roughly 105 US dollars plus shipping to the US or where ever you may be. Plus if you want to boot from th einterface you will need TOS2.06 this adapter that I may reproduce includes TOS 2.06.

Since this interface has already been previously sold there is no research of developement needed its ready to go. Just need to make sure enough people would purchase the interface to make this project a reality once again.

Lost of people and talked about making ram upgrades and ide interfaces but only one new one has actually been made and being tested but its for the Mega STE and maybe a STE.

I just want users to have a great ide interface option for their Atari ST computer with out killing their pocket.

This interface does not require soldering for the STE. The regular ST does require soldering.


D

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Postby exxos » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:21 pm

So who is the origional developer of this kit ?

what does it look like ?

where does it fit ?
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Postby Greenious » Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:42 pm

atarionly wrote:This is not a commercial venture. Its a venture to try and take care of some atari users that do not have a hard drive for their ST. I found after I purchased the interface that it was the cheapest and easiest adapter on the market. After talking to the developer of the IDE interface he told me that he sold less than 100. And now no longer sells them or even manufactures them.


If you read the thread more closely, you'll see that noone is questioning your motives.

Atari hardware is increasingly harder to come by these days, and I personally applause your efforts.

I'm currently developing some hardware for the atari, and even though I do it for fun, I am not doing it for free. Most of my developments will be available for free, but I'm not going to provide built stuff for free.

atarionly wrote:The interface will not be reproduced if people dont want it. Another interface is also going to be reproduce in the UK for 60 pounds. thats roughly 105 US dollars plus shipping to the US or where ever you may be. Plus if you want to boot from th einterface you will need TOS2.06 this adapter that I may reproduce includes TOS 2.06.

Since this interface has already been previously sold there is no research of developement needed its ready to go. Just need to make sure enough people would purchase the interface to make this project a reality once again.

Lost of people and talked about making ram upgrades and ide interfaces but only one new one has actually been made and being tested but its for the Mega STE and maybe a STE.

I just want users to have a great ide interface option for their Atari ST computer with out killing their pocket.


Personally, I'd advocate a SCSI interface at that price. Plug'n play and nowadays SCSI devices with the capacity that atari requires, can be had for pocket change.

atarionly wrote:This interface does not require soldering for the STE. The regular ST does require soldering.


I personally does not recommend a solderfree solution. In the long run they only give you grief.

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Postby ijor » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:12 am

Yes, we all encourage any commercial initiative related to Atari. There is nothing wrong in making some money of it. That’s precisely the reason that many of us are ready to pay the price you mentioned (probably none of us would accept such a price for a similar device for the PC).

I also would like to add my vote for a SCSI plug-in interface. There is a big difference between something that requires installation and something that doesn’t. Plus avoiding the need of a TOS upgrade is also important.

Probably I’m asking too much, but it would be great if we can get a SCSI host adapter compatible with ICD ones. So that it could be used with the standard ICD software. Hope this “ICD cloning” won’t require any copyright violation. Furthermore, I wouldn’t mind contributing in finding how ICD drivers identify an ICD host adapter.

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Postby Greenious » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:22 am

ijor wrote:Probably I’m asking too much, but it would be great if we can get a SCSI host adapter compatible with ICD ones. So that it could be used with the standard ICD software. Hope this “ICD cloning” won’t require any copyright violation. Furthermore, I wouldn’t mind contributing in finding how ICD drivers identify an ICD host adapter.


Don't want to be cheeky, but ICD Pro doesn't care what interface you are using, so...

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Postby atarionly » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:32 am

exxos wrote:So who is the origional developer of this kit ?

what does it look like ?

where does it fit ?


I rather not bring the developers name out since I dont want him to be swamped with requests for the interface. I have sent him a email and he promtly wrote me back and said he would let me reproduce but didnt want to be apart of it. The developer will be compensated for the use of his design. As soon as I figure everything out I will release more information.

The board is like 2"x2" and plus into the cpu socket on a STE.

It fits right into the STE case as does the ST version.

Ive installed a STE version in a STE that I have since sold. The whole reason I bought the interface was to see how easy it was to install and how well it would perform.

Its very easy to install, worked on the first time I booted the STE.

Don

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Postby atarionly » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:38 am

ijor wrote:
Probably I’m asking too much, but it would be great if we can get a SCSI host adapter compatible with ICD ones. So that it could be used with the standard ICD software. Hope this “ICD cloning” won’t require any copyright violation. Furthermore, I wouldn’t mind contributing in finding how ICD drivers identify an ICD host adapter.


A few years back I emailed ICD about a doing the same with their SCSI adapters. Their designs and copyrights were for sale so I though tI would ask what would it hurt. It didnt hurt at all I still havent got a reply from them.

Don

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Postby ijor » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:19 am

atarionly wrote:A few years back I emailed ICD about a doing the same with their SCSI adapters. Their designs and copyrights were for sale so I though tI would ask what would it hurt. It didnt hurt at all I still havent got a reply from them.


You mean the original ICD owners, or that guy that purchased them some years ago? I understand he didn’t get any “designs” (schematics, sources, etc), only copyrights. I don’t know why and can’t actually confirm that this was the case.

Btw, if anyone from Atari Legend is reading this. If you ask me which person I would like to get interviewed, I would vote for the original ICD owners. Probably among the top contributors to Atari computers (both 8-bit and ST lines). I would love to hear what happened to them. I understand they were a couple of guys coming originally from Spartan Software. (sorry for the off-topic)

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Postby Dark Willow » Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:15 am

Really irritates me when people stop making hardware or software for technically 'obsolete' systems, but don't release the designs for further development or brining them back into production in smaller ventures. They aren't going to be used anymore, so why not let others benefit, Ok ask you be credit for the design, even a royalty perhaps, but don't let the design go to waste.

I'm glad to see the orginal developer of this board has been willing to share her or his technology, nothing will be lost to them, and the Atari world benefits, everyone wins:)
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Simply solution for ATARI IDE

Postby paskud » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:33 pm

Hi

maybe:
http://www.rsi.pl/paskud/service/ide.gif

works with all ST/STE/MegaST/MegaSTE......
with TOS 1.0 to 2.06......
Support 2 IDE Devices (Hard Disk or/and CD-ROM)

now I works with english documentation for it
(basic instructions in Polish language.......)


Paskud

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Postby unseenmenace » Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:10 am

Looks interesting Paskud. Does the IDE interface connect to the cartridge port or is it internal?
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