using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

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using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

Postby robbie32 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:31 pm

Hello

Question, is there a atari program to use an 5.25" diskdrive (in a pentium 1 system) to change te track (80-to 40 ) etc.
The pc is an Pentium 1 with a 5.25"diskdrive But the disks i have are "atari - formatted" is there a way to read those disks (about 900 pcs with Public domain software)

please help me...

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Postby oesii » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:50 pm

If the disks are "Atari" formatted then they are for the Atari 8bit computers (800, 800XL, 130XE, etc.). I'm not sure there's a solution for reading Atari 8bit 5 1/4 floppies through a PC. I don't think a PC drive can read Atari formatting, you might want to try a few other possibilities.

One is the Atari810 disk drive emulator:

http://retrobits.net/atari810.html

This might let you read those floppies and if you had a sio2pc cable you can send them over to the Atari. But I think it might only work with floppy images off the net.

You can get a sio2pc cable from http://www.atarimax.com
If you had an Atari drive it would be much easier to read the files from it and then transfer it to the PC for use in emus or to archive the files, using the sio2pc cable and software. This might be the only way to read those disks but it assumes you have an 8bit computer and a disk drive for it.

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Postby robbie32 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:57 pm

Hello,

The disks are Atari ST disks. And as far as 1 i know this is also a special format for 5.25" disks... 360 or 720 KB 40 or 80 tracks single / double sided.. etc.
Maybe you know what the format is of this disks...

simbo

Re: using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

Postby simbo » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:58 pm

the drive its self does the switching if it dosnt you may need a later drive for the older disks


so it will move to a lower mode as needed
set the disk in the computers bios at 360k type and it should still read them

use a version of dos as a boot disk this way you can still copy them with xcopy
i think youll need to instead of copy them to the pc
just use a later 720k 3.5 and do a straight copy a: b: *.*
type comand in dos

you can type copy /? to get the comand table for copy.exe
i think a win 95 osr2 or win98 boot disk is best and do a minimul boot from the menu as it starts up

dont forget to write protect your 5 1/4s


robbie32 wrote:Hello

Question, is there a atari program to use an 5.25" diskdrive (in a pentium 1 system) to change te track (80-to 40 ) etc.
The pc is an Pentium 1 with a 5.25"diskdrive But the disks i have are "atari - formatted" is there a way to read those disks (about 900 pcs with Public domain software)

please help me...

robbie32
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Re: using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

Postby robbie32 » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:04 pm

simbo wrote:the drive its self does the switching if it dosnt you may need a later drive for the older disks


so it will move to a lower mode as needed
set the disk in the computers bios at 360k type and it should still read them

use a version of dos as a boot disk this way you can still copy them with xcopy
i think youll need to instead of copy them to the pc
just use a later 720k 3.5 and do a straight copy a: b: *.*
type comand in dos

you can type copy /? to get the comand table for copy.exe
i think a win 95 osr2 or win98 boot disk is best and do a minimul boot from the menu as it starts up

dont forget to write protect your 5 1/4s


I have tried this already but this also does'n work.
i only get the message : Invalid media type reading drive B...

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Postby oesii » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:17 pm

ah, I think I do remember seeing some Atari ST 5 1/4 floppies, never saw a drive for them though so I was never sure how they worked.

There's an article in Antic about connecting a PC floppy to a ST:

http://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n7/stusesibmdiscs.html

might be some ideas in there about the tracks, etc. Sorry for the confusion

:D


Some ideas from this newsgroup thread too, seems like if the floppies were from an early TOS before 1.04 they might not be readable on a PC:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&l ... 860&rnum=2

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Postby ijor » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:36 pm

robbie32 wrote:The disks are Atari ST disks. And as far as 1 i know this is also a special format for 5.25" disks... 360 or 720 KB 40 or 80 tracks single / double sided.. etc.
Maybe you know what the format is of this disks...



A 5.25 ST disk with “standard” 360k format should be directly readable by the PC using whatever OS. No need to mess with BIOS setup (as long as the BIOS setup is correct), actually forcing a 360k drive on the setup if your drive is 1.2Mb could make more difficult to read the disk.

So first thing to try is to simple read the files with DOS, Windows, Linux, etc.

If it doesn’t work, there are two possibilities, either the disk is corrupt, or it has a non-standard format. I will assume the disk is not corrupt, because otherwise there isn’t much to be done. The error message you are getting “Invalid media type”, suggests that indeed it is a non-standard format and that the boot sector is being read ok.

If it has a non-standard format, then you need some low-level tools. It is possible that Makedisk will work, but I’m not sure. It might be worth to try it. In any case, you need to boot in DOS mode somehow.

If Makedisk doesn’t work, find some old DOS disk utilities. PC tools, Norton Utilities, etc. Again, boot in DOS mode and see if you can access the disk with those utilities. If you do, then you can either make an image or copy the disk to a 3.5 drive.

If using PC tools, for example, then you can copy all the tracks to a 3.5 DD disk, and then use makedisk. But it will be faster to make an image directly. This might be possible depending on the tools you use.

If you can access the disk using the low-level utilities, but cannot make an image, post here the boot record so we could give you further help.

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Postby Steem Authors » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Just to clarify, Steem doesn't attempt to access any PC drives directly, there are just too many technical problems involved. To be able to use any real disk that cannot be accessed through the PC OS you will have to make an image.

Russell Hayward

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Re: using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

Postby Baz » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:08 pm

simbo wrote:just use a later 720k 3.5 and do a straight copy a: b: *.*
type comand in dos



wont that try and copy the whole disk sector by sector, resulting in an error message as the two types of media are different?

copy A:\*.* B:\
will copy all the files one by one but it wont copy the boot sector, FAT or sub directories (do those separately)

simbo

Postby simbo » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:19 pm

http://www.jungsi.de/Computer/atari%20tips.html
here is a link to fcopy {fastcopy} and makedisk
the pages are in good old german 8)


http://atari.nvg.org/launchpad/pages/software.html

on this site youll find heeps of ftp info for access to most stuff



ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/atari/TOS_Fixes/

on this page and a point for people using tos2.06 that hasnt had the errors in it patched
look at the lzh file flopfix

i see many of these patches around
and no quality control over image files
to ensure that the images are sequenced as with different or multiple patchers to it applied

to iron out the flaws that got carried into versions even simulators
a small bug in say floppy handling can cause bigger problems in games on 2.06 etc...

as the topic mentions steem perhaps this translations is better to see the issues maybe steem dosnt like some types of tos roms and disk access gets a funny turn



sorry to hog the topic
esp russ and steem
are these problems addressed in steem ?? with tos roms ??? images
or is it hit and miss
i see a version onsite

can you place a list of added fixes to the roms image as per bugs found and workarounds like this one added in or more fully explored
?? :)


This program fixes some very bad bugs in the floppy routines of
TOS2.06, 3.06, 4.00, 4.01, 4.02, 4.04. I can not understand how
it is possible to insert so much bugs in only some kByte of code -
by only adding some lines in the language C. I think it was a
very bad programmer (or a typist, not a programmer). I can not
understand that Atari does not distribute this patch as an offical
one. I tried it more than once (my first bug report I think
has gone directly in the trash can, otherwise these bugs would not
be present in the Falcon TOS).

These bugs will bite you very hard if you use above TOS versions
and have two disc drives. But one disc drive is enough to get in
touch with these bugs too.

Only some examples:
try to copy a HD (1.44MB) disc on a Falcon using the desktop
disccopy function. You will get an error message before writing
the destination and your desktop becomes a bit unnormal (eg changed
sizes of characters). The same result you will get using some
copy or format programs which are correct, but do not work around
this TOS-bugs.
try to display a longer file from a write protected disc drive B:
You continue after the floppy motor stopped (and the light
turned off). The motor will start and an error message will be
displayed (in German: "LESEFEHLER", direct translation: read error)

This errors are caused by the try to make the disc-changed-detection
more relayable connected with the unability of the programmer.
Now there are disc changes assumed which never took place and some memory
contends can be destroyed.

Sorry for so much critics, but I can not understand this behavior of
Atari. (The suitable words I know only in German!)

Here the UUE (only German docs if I remember correctly)



:P i found a site with 20 of them on it also
but sadly knowone prepairs images ... in series :roll:
Last edited by simbo on Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:40 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Postby Cyrano Jones » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:23 pm

My 2nd drive is a 5.25" drive. I have also had a switch fitted to "swap" the a/b drives around so I can boot off it.

As far as the ST is concerned, they are the exact same format. You can copy from one to the other using FCOPY or any other application (including GEM)

simbo

Re: using a 5.25"diskdrive (from PC) on steem

Postby simbo » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:40 pm

Baz wrote:
simbo wrote:just use a later 720k 3.5 and do a straight copy a: b: *.*
type comand in dos



wont that try and copy the whole disk sector by sector, resulting in an error message as the two types of media are different?

copy A:\*.* B:\
will copy all the files one by one but it wont copy the boot sector, FAT or s
sub directories (do those separately)









no but your right it wont copy the boot sector even this is just a file to the pc so just change to disk a and use attrib *.* -r -s -h
function or load them with win95 and use makedisk in a dos window again with atrib set off

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Postby robbie32 » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:16 pm

Ok thanx people for the answers.. i guess that i only 1 thing can do.. and that is re-install the atari mega st with the 5.25 "drive and put all the disks on harddrive.
I work at this moment on the network module for atari st - pc.
As i have finished this i will transfer all the disks to cd/dvd.

Robbie32

simbo

Postby simbo » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:34 pm

i think you should use the atari to copy them to a 3.5 and then use the 3.5's in the pc

if yo uneed a backup

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Postby robbie32 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:18 am

I don't think that i will copy all the 5.25" disks to 3.5"...
to copy about 900 disks with Public domain software is a lot of work... 8O

So i will copy all disk to the atari hard disk and than i hope that the networkdevice will work with me...


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