Falcon DSP pinout

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:21 pm

Hi there
I've tried to find a pinout for Falcon DSP but it seems quite a challenge. You'd think that Motorola manual would do it but if you look closely you'll notice that 56001 in there has 132 pins while the one if Falcon has only 80!

Internet knows nothing about the 80 pin version, and other then the incomplete pinout which has no labels for ~14 pins (http://tho-otto.de/hypview/hypview.cgi? ... &index=476) there's nothing out there.

How is that possible? What am I missing?
Regards

mpattonm
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby mpattonm » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:29 pm

Atari_Falcon030_Service_Guide.pdf
page 55
its missing power pins tho, so these have to be reverse engineered from Falcon PCB data. I may have a complete pinout, incl power, somewhere...
BTW those ~14 pins will be either NC, or power.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:39 pm

Nope. Sorry, I forgot to mention. There's discrepancy in that document which I discovered earlier: page 55 lists pins for 132 pin package which is not correct.

mpattonm
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby mpattonm » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:42 pm

Oh, right, sorry. Anyway, here is the complete pinout for SSP4240220FJ33-QFP80
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:08 pm

Interesting, thank you very much.

I wonder if there's official Motorola doc to confirm this? I find it hard to believe that's no mention of a cut down 56001 anywhere. By cut down verison I mean the removal of the serial port pins (RXD, TXD) in port C.

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 987
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby czietz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:32 pm

Welcome to the world of custom (or semi-custom) chips. For a lot of the ICs in the products that I develop at work, you won't find any public documentation, either.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:35 pm

Is it a custom chip though? For 20k units? Would it save them any money?

mpattonm
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby mpattonm » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:46 pm

There is no Motorola datasheet AFAIK. One of the options to cross-reference my attachement is Falcon schematic, for example.

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 987
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby czietz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:58 pm

sqward wrote:Is it a custom chip though? For 20k units? Would it save them any money?


It's probably the same silicon as the standard 56001, just in a custom package. (That's what I was trying to say with "semi-custom".) Also, we don't know what sales figures Atari promised to Motorola.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:16 pm

mpattonm wrote:There is no Motorola datasheet AFAIK. One of the options to cross-reference my attachement is Falcon schematic, for example.



I tried that. Your document makes sense but I was hoping it wasn't correct :) Falcon schematic doesn't reference VCC and GDN pins as far as I can see so cross-referencing is not fully possible.

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 987
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby czietz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:36 pm

If you were really, really desperate, you could trace the signals using the Falcon PCB layout: https://www.chzsoft.de/storage/falcon-rev4-board.pdf. However, it's absolutely no fun following a trace through vias and multiple layers.

But, considering that mpattonm has spent considerable time making a better Falcon PCB (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34086), I'd be quite certain that his pinout is correct.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:04 pm

Maybe I'll just explain what I was looking to achieve: regular 56001 has a async serial interface (SCI) which woudn't be connected in Falcon if only regular 56001 was used. I was hoping to run that serial port with a pair of wires another unused async serial port in MFP. This would help me with debugging my DSP software.

The diagram from mpattonm would suggest that SCI is cut out of the part that is used in Falcon. However, Falcon schematic says nothing much about the location of VCC and GND pins. So I kind of hope that TXD and RXD pins are still there undiscovered :)

User avatar
krupkaj
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Olomouc/Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby krupkaj » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:30 pm

please remove the post, I found you already mention what I though.

mpattonm
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby mpattonm » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:38 am

sqward wrote:However, Falcon schematic says nothing much about the location of VCC and GND pins. So I kind of hope that TXD and RXD pins are still there undiscovered :)

The extract I have sent you includes power pins mapping. If you just take a look at it and count all the pins, you will realize not a single pin is left unconnected. So where do you think the ASP port pins would be hiding? :O

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:40 am

By mistakenly being labeled VCC or GND :)

mpattonm
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby mpattonm » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:45 am

Well they are all _physically_ connected on VCC or GND and the track width of each of their connection on Falcon PCB confirms they are indeed power pins, not just a (RX/TX) data lines tied say to ground. That would not make sence anyway.
Last edited by mpattonm on Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:47 am

Thanks. My hopes are gone now :)

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 987
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby czietz » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am

OK, then use the original PCB layout I posted above, look up all pins that are labeled VCC or GND in mpattonm's schematic symbol and check whether any of them is not connected to the respective power planes in the PCB. Or use a continuity tester on the actual HW.
EDIT: mpattonm already confirmed that.

Another thing that makes "hidden" pins unlikely: If we assume it's the standard silicon in a custom package, the order of pins will be the same. (You want to avoid bond wires criss-crossing.) Therefore, any potentially hidden serial port pins would need to be between SC0 and H0. Those are pins 54 and 55, respectively, in the 80 pin package. Nothing in-between.

User avatar
Eero Tamminen
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:17 pm

sqward wrote:Maybe I'll just explain what I was looking to achieve: regular 56001 has a async serial interface (SCI) which woudn't be connected in Falcon if only regular 56001 was used. I was hoping to run that serial port with a pair of wires another unused async serial port in MFP. This would help me with debugging my DSP software.


Have you tried Hatari DSP profiler? It has even support for profiling spinloops to find out where one could remove waits between CPU<->DSP communication (which I added when Douglas was optimizing those for Bad Mood).

User avatar
sqward
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:47 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Falcon DSP pinout

Postby sqward » Wed May 01, 2019 10:32 pm

Hatari's DSP emulation in general is in quite poor state for my needs. My last demo doesn't work for several reasons (https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=78884):
* 030 emulation timings are off
* SDMA emulation is sketchy (handshake mode seems to only work with Norig mp2 player?)
* No DSP timer emulation
* No host port interrupts on DSP side

I Hatari can get there though.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests