Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

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Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:23 pm

********** EDITED **********
This experience that I share (It is necessary to have courage to share something in this forum) is limited to 5 Atari floppy drives and 5 PC floppy drives that were available to me, therefore there may be differences regarding the huge number of existing PC floppy disk drives. I relate what I and only I have found when I have needed to replace the floppy disk drives and I do not guarantee that for the rest of the planet Earth (and part of Mars) will serve these indications.
*********************************************

Hello;
The replacement of the Atari floppy drive is a fact that sooner or later all of us will have to face.
There is already a lot of literature on the types of PC floppy disk that can be used, with or without a jumper to change from ID1 to ID0, more or less compatible with the fascia, etc; but most users have opted for a quick, easy solution that breaks the original aesthetic: the cut in the upper case of the computer, just around the button or even a total cut forming a rectangle similar to the Falcon 030 case.

00 - Case cut.jpg


I confess that I also did it once in the late 80's, but as an attenuating I will say at that time the Atari computer was a functional tool, it did not have the current category of functional tool and legendary object to be preserved.
If we want to preserve something more of the original aspect, it is possible to make another modification even if it is not as fast or as simple as the previous one.
The main problem to adapt a PC floppy disk drive in the Atari is the form factor and the fascia, in this sketch you can see the difference in length of the metal body and the different design of the front with eject button:

01 - Disqueteras Atari y PC.jpg


I prefer to cut the front on the inside that will not be visible, so we do not modify the external appearance of the computer case:

02 - Frontal.jpg


Disassembling the front of the PC drive, with the front Atari trimmed will add the length allowed by the computer case. A few drops of silicone will stick the front on the inside of the case and will be fixed independently of the metal body of the floppy drive.
The eject button must also be modified according to the initial model of the Atari floppy drive and the PC drive that we have, even reducing the size of the rhomboid a little, modifying its coupling slot, gluing it, screwing it, etc.
Obviously in most floppy drives the front includes the dust door and therefore our final result will be without that articulated door, except for the Epson models that have it assembled in the metallic body.

03 - Frontal recortado.jpg


This modification is not difficult, but requires a bit more skill than the old solution of cutting the computer case, you have to use a dremel and more tools (file, sandpaper, silicone, etc.), it is not suitable for people who have difficulty hanging a picture on the wall.
Greetings from Seville.

04 - Montaje final.jpg
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Last edited by Atarieterno on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:44 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Silly_Pony » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:55 am

I don't think your diagram is accurate. You show PC floppy drive as being longer, but that isn't true. ST drive is longer because of it's faceplate sticks out through the case hole. In your photo we see PC drive faceplate is flat and stays totally within the atari case using same screw location.

Your solution is better looking than cutting the case for a button but truthfully neither is needed. For my own atari I just cut the eject button to fit in standard atari hole. The only problem is I have a black drive, and it makes my mega ste mega ugly.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby joska » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:47 am

I modelled this in Sketchup a couple of years ago:

MPF920-ST.png


It's a bezel and ejectbutton for the popular (and good!) Sony MPF920. Unfortunately it's not quite finished, needs a bit of adjustment to fit correctly in the ST case.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:30 am

Silly_Pony wrote:I don't think your diagram is accurate. You show PC floppy drive as being longer, but that isn't true. ST drive is longer because of it's faceplate sticks out through the case hole. In your photo we see PC drive faceplate is flat and stays totally within the atari case using same screw location.

Your solution is better looking than cutting the case for a button but truthfully neither is needed. For my own atari I just cut the eject button to fit in standard atari hole. The only problem is I have a black drive, and it makes my mega ste mega ugly.



The metal body of PC floppy drive is longer than Atari's, if they were the same I would not need to cut the plastic front to attach it. I do not know if you have found a PC model that is shorter, but I have adapted 5 floppy drives and all have needed modification, one of them even I cut 3 mm of the metal part and adapted the original Atari front without modifying it.
Your solution to cut the eject button PC produces a button too small, because it does not match either in shape or in alignment with the hole in the Atari computer case.

Disqueteras Atari (1).jpg
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby catmando » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:36 am

Atarieterno wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:I don't think your diagram is accurate. You show PC floppy drive as being longer, but that isn't true. ST drive is longer because of it's faceplate sticks out through the case hole. In your photo we see PC drive faceplate is flat and stays totally within the atari case using same screw location.

Your solution is better looking than cutting the case for a button but truthfully neither is needed. For my own atari I just cut the eject button to fit in standard atari hole. The only problem is I have a black drive, and it makes my mega ste mega ugly.



The metal body of PC floppy drive is longer than Atari's, if they were the same I would not need to cut the plastic front to attach it. I do not know if you have found a PC model that is shorter, but I have adapted 5 floppy drives and all have needed modification, one of them even I cut 3 mm of the metal part and adapted the original Atari front without modifying it.
Your solution to cut the eject button PC produces a button too small, because it does not match either in shape or in alignment with the hole in the Atari computer case.

Disqueteras Atari (1).jpg


You need to flip the drives over and align the screw holes on both before you compare the length
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:41 am

catmando wrote:You need to flip the drives over and align the screw holes on both before you compare the length


You also think I'm doing unnecessary work?
If both disk drives were exactly the same, everything would be as easy as removing the metallic coating and the Atari front panel and attaching it to the PC disk drive.
Can someone show me how simple it is?
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby joska » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

Silly_Pony wrote:You show PC floppy drive as being longer, but that isn't true.


My experience is that the metal case of the Atari drives is shorter than the typical PC drive. And that makes perfect sense, if they weren't shorter it would be very difficult to have a bezel that's almost twice as thick as the typical PC drive bezel.

Silly_Pony wrote:The only problem is I have a black drive, and it makes my mega ste mega ugly.


Uglyness is exactly the problem atarieterno is trying to solve here. Cutting the eject button may or may not work (many PC drive eject buttons are offset compared to the Atari eject button) but it will never look good. Functional - yes.

Please note that I'm talking about the later, small button floppy drives here. The old drives with the big button has completely different dimensions than "modern" drives.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby scsilord » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:12 pm

My megaste came with a gotek(and buttonhole cut), i placed a sony mpf920 behind a really yellowed mitsumi atari st cover and after making room for the ejec button it fits relaxed.

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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:10 pm

scsilord wrote:My megaste came with a gotek(and buttonhole cut), i placed a sony mpf920 behind a really yellowed mitsumi atari st cover and after making room for the ejec button it fits relaxed.


Perhaps it is missing a very important fact: I am trying to adapt a PC floppy disk in an ATARI ST.
Other Atari models such as Mega ST or Mega STe / TT have different housings and the procedure can change.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby catmando » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:31 pm

Atarieterno wrote:
catmando wrote:You need to flip the drives over and align the screw holes on both before you compare the length


You also think I'm doing unnecessary work?
If both disk drives were exactly the same, everything would be as easy as removing the metallic coating and the Atari front panel and attaching it to the PC disk drive.
Can someone show me how simple it is?


Possibly...
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:20 pm

[quote="catmando]

Possibly...[/quote]

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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:54 pm

This is another PC drive with the adapted Atari front (trimmed inside, because without cutting it does not fit). In this example I used the button of the PC floppy disk drive, I gave it the necessary rhomboidal shape and screwed it to the internal mechanism. The next step is to find a screw with a more suitable head and then cover it with epoxy resin, and finally paint the button gray.

Botón PC.png
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby wongck » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:02 pm

Atarieterno wrote:This is another PC drive with the adapted Atari front (trimmed inside, because without cutting it does not fit).


My STFM floppy drive was shorter than the PC floppy drive, may be not so for those ST sold in your country.
May be many different size floppy drive on the ST found in different countries. i don't know.

But at least you showed others how you did that great mod to still have the iconic drive button, well done.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby spiny » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:22 pm

Atarieterno wrote:
The metal body of PC floppy drive is longer than Atari's, if they were the same I would not need to cut the plastic front to attach it. I do not know if you have found a PC model that is shorter, but I have adapted 5 floppy drives and all have needed modification, one of them even I cut 3 mm of the metal part and adapted the original Atari front without modifying it.
Your solution to cut the eject button PC produces a button too small, because it does not match either in shape or in alignment with the hole in the Atari computer case.

Disqueteras Atari (1).jpg


I just grabbed the first three PC drives from the pile nearest me and they are all shorter than the Atari original. I'll get the rest out of storage and compare them hopefully over the weekend, I have a bunch of (broken) original drives too, so should be able to compare them as well

drives.jpg
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:55 pm

spiny wrote:I just grabbed the first three PC drives from the pile nearest me and they are all shorter than the Atari original. I'll get the rest out of storage and compare them hopefully over the weekend, I have a bunch of (broken) original drives too, so should be able to compare them as well


If all the people have access to the same floppy drives that you have: why for decades have they mutilated the casing instead of simply using the front of the Atari floppy disk drive that would fit perfectly?

However, I will edit my initial message to avoid confusion.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:19 am

Among the original Atari floppy drives that I have replaced, basically I have found two systems of fixing for the ejection button in the internal mechanism (probably there are many more types, I only list the ones I have):
1- Button with a slot and a kind of clip on a metal projection inside.
2- Button with a crosshead that is housed in a metal groove inside.
In the previous message I showed a button to the "type 2" system, and in this image I show a "type 1" button adapted to the PC floppy disk: as the slot does not match correctly with the metal mechanism, I enlarged it in the convenient direction and I secured its fixation with a small screw that is not visible when the front and the housing are assembled. This second type I like more.

Of course, this PC floppy drive added to the front Atari provided a length greater than that allowed by the computer case and therefore I needed to cut the front by its internal face about 3 mm.

Botón II.jpg
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby spiny » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:40 am

Atarieterno wrote:
spiny wrote:I just grabbed the first three PC drives from the pile nearest me and they are all shorter than the Atari original. I'll get the rest out of storage and compare them hopefully over the weekend, I have a bunch of (broken) original drives too, so should be able to compare them as well


If all the people have access to the same floppy drives that you have: why for decades have they mutilated the casing instead of simply using the front of the Atari floppy disk drive that would fit perfectly?

However, I will edit my initial message to avoid confusion.



for me it was because the button eject lever was not in the same place as on the atari drive

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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby joska » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:56 am

spiny wrote:I just grabbed the first three PC drives from the pile nearest me and they are all shorter than the Atari original.


Not sure what you're comparing here, but it has nothing to do with the problem Atarieterno describes. Flip your drives over and align the mounting holes, *then* take a look at the bezels. If you want to replace the bezel on a PC drive with one from an Atari drive, some cutting/modification on either side is required.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby spiny » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:45 am

joska wrote:
spiny wrote:I just grabbed the first three PC drives from the pile nearest me and they are all shorter than the Atari original.


Not sure what you're comparing here, but it has nothing to do with the problem Atarieterno describes. Flip your drives over and align the mounting holes, *then* take a look at the bezels. If you want to replace the bezel on a PC drive with one from an Atari drive, some cutting/modification on either side is required.


it was a comment on pc drives being longer.

I'll try and take pics later, but a quick look this moring showed that the area of the floppy chassis where the bezel 'clips' in is roughly the same when the mounting holes are lined up. I have not swapped the bezels on any replacement drives as none of the PC drives I have used have had the eject mechanism in the same place, so the atari bezel would need cutting, and thus, also the case, so I just went with thr eject button case 'mod'

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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby joska » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:00 am

I thought it was obvious from the first post that it was not the total length of the drive that was the issue, but that the difference in bezel thickness requires either the floppy case or the bezel to be modified when transplanting an Atari bezel to a PC drive:

Image
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:48 am

The main difference is that one type needs to screw vertically and another screw horizontally.

Tipos 1 y 2.jpg
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby scsilord » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:56 am

Atarieterno wrote:
scsilord wrote:My megaste came with a gotek(and buttonhole cut), i placed a sony mpf920 behind a really yellowed mitsumi atari st cover and after making room for the ejec button it fits relaxed.


Perhaps it is missing a very important fact: I am trying to adapt a PC floppy disk in an ATARI ST.
Other Atari models such as Mega ST or Mega STe / TT have different housings and the procedure can change.


Procedures vary will vary allt the time, Atari used different floppydrives and different faceplates with rectangular buttons, large rombusses, small rombusses and there are tons of different drives to use as a replacement and they all have a different button placement.

in the last few days i managed to hide a sony mpf920 in a SF354 with small rectangular button. It took a few evenings to cut the insides of the old faceplate to make it fit and adapt the original button on the sony one.

The wide button holes seem to me like a nightmare to sturdily adapt to a small button drive.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Silly_Pony » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:49 pm

joska wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:You show PC floppy drive as being longer, but that isn't true.


My experience is that the metal case of the Atari drives is shorter than the typical PC drive. And that makes perfect sense, if they weren't shorter it would be very difficult to have a bezel that's almost twice as thick as the typical PC drive bezel.


Metal case of Atari drive is not the problem. I am talking about the entire drive's length, bezel and all.

In the OP's diagram the drives are depicted as having their bezels line up when the screws are lined up. This is false. The ST drive bezel has a large sticking out lip which pokes through the hole in the computer case. The PC drive bezel, on the other hand stays entirely within the case.

This is more accurate:

Image

Orange line = wall of atari case.

This mistake is weird to me because that lip which mates with the case hole is the entire thing we're interested in keeping. You can't miss it.
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Atarieterno » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:00 am

Silly_Pony wrote:
In the OP's diagram the drives are depicted as having their bezels line up when the screws are lined up. This is false. The ST drive bezel has a large sticking out lip which pokes through the hole in the computer case. The PC drive bezel, on the other hand stays entirely within the case.


Including the detail of the Atari floppy-drive front through the computer case, the problem and the solution are the same as I propose:

- PROBLEM. The Atari front together with the metallic body of the PC floppy disk drive provides an excessive total length.
- SOLUTION. The Atari front can be cut on the inside and then stick to the computer case, so it will retain its original appearance.

Eject button.
- PROBLEM. The internal ejection mechanism of the PC floppy disk is slightly displaced laterally with respect to the Atari.
- SOLUTION. The rhomboid plastic button can modify its slot a bit and also fix it with a small screw horizontally or vertically depending on the type of floppy disk available. The vertical type is hidden with the assembly and the horizontal needs to be covered with epoxy and painted with gray paint.

My only intention is to always provide useful things for our culture Atari, which can benefit users and machines that suffer less mutilation. I only expose my experience and this is not the Bible, people can attend to the indications, can ignore them, can expand and refine them ...
Greetings from Seville.

P.S. This is not false, this is real:

Disqueteras Atari (1).jpg
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Re: Floppy drive replacement (expanding the theme).

Postby Silly_Pony » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:23 am

Haha you just put two drives on the table and took a photo. Wow genius of the year here.

Look where the mounting holes are. Line them up using that. Then try again. Lo-and-behold the ST bezel will extend further out.

Image

If you don't line up mounting screws, you don't get correct answer. Simple as that.
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