STacy: midi out

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STacy: midi out

Postby NoSleep » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:45 am

When I try to run Creator OR Cubase I get a weird problem. The music comes out all out of time. Stranger still, if if I filter the output through another ST (via the midi thru of either programme) it plays fine. I have a feeling this may be simply an earthing problem on the midi out of the STacy, but thought I'd ask on here before I went for a repair to see if anyone recognized this. I'm puzzled as I always assumed MIDI was immune from earthing problems, due to working via photo-electric connections to avoid hum and stuff. the reason I think its an earth problem is I (strangely but truly) connected the midi to and audio output to monitor the output of the MIDI. If I do this to any other equipment (keyboards etc... I just hear the MIDI out stuff)) I don't experience earth hum, but I do on the STacy.

What is confounding about this is it occurs on the outputs of my Unitor, too, which belies the earth problem theory.
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simbo

Postby simbo » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:43 pm

sounds more like a midi sync signal missing
serial is serial 38.400 is it if its not that youll get loss of data

so i guess that your drivers arent setup quite right
as the unitor shows the same problem


other than this there is a 2.4576 mhz xtal inside the ataris so it may have wandered off freq check it with a counter.....

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Postby NoSleep » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:24 pm

what really puzzles me is how the signal becomes perfect if it's put through the midi thru of another ST... it's as if there was nothing wrong with it in the first place. But take the midi out and connect it directly to a sound module etc and the result is that any music comes out sound like somebody sitting on a keyboard. If it is a faulty driver would this make sense? If it does, what can I do to alleviate the problem?
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Postby jens » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:58 pm

I think you might have adjusted your midi filters in the stacy in a wrong way. You should see through them. When you use a keyboard that sends sys-ex signals all the time that might cause trouble. If your other atari does filter those signals out because of its adjustments it might seem a mistake of the stacy's...
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Postby NoSleep » Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:59 pm

It is very puzzling. I don't think it's the midi filters within the program on the STacy, as I use the same configuration on my STE with no problems. My keyboard doesn't spit out a load of unnecessary sys-ex as far as I know, as I would be aware of this, generally speaking... I actually save and load sys-ex dumps, so I know when it's on or not. The problem seems to only manifest if I connect to an external sound module directly. That's why I was thinking it was arising from something like an earthing problem, ie the other computer was earthing it and so the signal clears.
No problem if nobody else has experienced this. Looks like a visit to the repair shop is in hand.
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simbo

Postby simbo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:32 am

NoSleep wrote:It is very puzzling. I don't think it's the midi filters within the program on the STacy, as I use the same configuration on my STE with no problems. My keyboard doesn't spit out a load of unnecessary sys-ex as far as I know, as I would be aware of this, generally speaking... I actually save and load sys-ex dumps, so I know when it's on or not. The problem seems to only manifest if I connect to an external sound module directly. That's why I was thinking it was arising from something like an earthing problem, ie the other computer was earthing it and so the signal clears.
No problem if nobody else has experienced this. Looks like a visit to the repair shop is in hand.



if you connect midi in and midi out to a sound module
then youll get midi feedback

this is cured by setting the module to filter the data not to return or to use midi in and midi thru

sound like the sound module is feeding back data

i cant think why a stacy would have any issues with say a roland
although i have heard of this problem before
the cure was to use a midi output via the export.drv in cubase {if you use it} and take the port from the modem socket {two pins}

this way you can route a separate midi out for 16 channels to the module with no need to return data from it then this is sensible

as long as the channels you use for the module {say drums and parts ch1 -10} are on lower channels than the main port {11 12 13 14 15 16}

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Postby NoSleep » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:36 pm

simbo wrote:if you connect midi in and midi out to a sound module
then youll get midi feedback

this is cured by setting the module to filter the data not to return or to use midi in and midi thru

sound like the sound module is feeding back data

i cant think why a stacy would have any issues with say a roland
although i have heard of this problem before
the cure was to use a midi output via the export.drv in cubase {if you use it} and take the port from the modem socket {two pins}

this way you can route a separate midi out for 16 channels to the module with no need to return data from it then this is sensible

as long as the channels you use for the module {say drums and parts ch1 -10} are on lower channels than the main port {11 12 13 14 15 16}


When I said I connect 'directly' I meant that the problem only occurs if I don't connect to the module thru my STE (ie from the STacy's MIDI out, direct to the sound module). If I need to connect the MIDI out of a sound module I would disable the MIDI thru (in the sequencer program) or disconnect the MIDI in, anyway.

I think there are possibilities of using the modem socket via Creator, too (I think it's MIDI out port B). But I believe there are timing issues related to this method (it isn't recommended).
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simbo

Postby simbo » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:32 pm

if i remember the stacy wont like this data rate
so may need the serial {modem} port controller circuit adjusted


yes your right but it should be ok to export 1 midi out
and the timing will be cool
midi3 would present a big problem

i think that it is midi feedback becouse the module will echo the data back to the midi in

the other possibility is that the midi set up is being driven by other than real midi cables

they are a different wiring from a standard 5 pin din
if i remember correctly i have had this problem using an st FM

and needed to change the cable i was using at the time {long time ago now}

just a thought

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Postby NoSleep » Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:09 am

I've got a 'special' Atari 3-pin midi lead so I don't think it's that. I'll try some experimentation on your suggestions, however, and will probably have a few questions later on.

(I'm a bit busy on other equipment right now, so it'll be in a week or two. it'd be nice to sort this as I would like to use the STacy as a live sequencer and at the moment it works perfectly apart from on MIDI software)
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simbo

Postby simbo » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:57 pm

after some research

its the tos version thats the problem

the stacy uses a tos version that has a bug in the midi and serial controller
apparently there is a patch was made to fix this at boot time

so..... trying to find more info for you now

but im sure you need a certain version of mros and possible other drivers installed in cubase

in cubase to add drivers change the drivers in the mros folders files extenssion to .drv from .dr

and then the driver is active

maybe this is worth experimenting with from what i read on support forums old posts this was a software problem with cubase mros and older tos version

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Postby NoSleep » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:38 pm

Thanks for that! I await news on the bug fix patch and will ask around myself.
I'll probably plump for using Creator as my main program. I think problems are less likely this way as it seemed to follow protocol for writing for the ST quite rigorously in comparison to Cubase. I recall the move from STFM to STE caused no problems for Creator/Notator users whilst Cubase had to be 'fixed'.
Could it be the TOS 1.4 Bugfix patch I need to install? I still haven't had time to check this as yet, as I've been quite busy elsewhere.
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simbo

Postby simbo » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:34 pm

ok some research points to the tos having buggy serial routines

i think if you upgrade the roms to tos 2.06 or super tos
it will work much better

you can do this at boot time
using a tos changing boot program at no system expense
copy it to an auto folder with a copy of the tos and it will auto replace at boot
no harm to try just make sure you back things up first

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Postby NoSleep » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:36 am

Sorry only just noticed this :-) I will look into it (booting the TOS will be worth experimenting with, I will hunt down a version of 2.06 and see what happens)

Thanks for the info
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