Beginning of very long journey

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fidzen
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby fidzen » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:01 pm

Beautiful work!
Atari Falcon, 14Mb RAM, CT60e, Supervidel, Svetlana, 512Mb RAM, 8Gb CF.
Atari Falcon, 14Mb RAM, CT63, 256Mb RAM,4Gb CF.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mikro » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:29 pm

How are you actually going to do this? I mean 'scanning' the inner PCB layers?

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby calimero » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:21 pm

mikro wrote:How are you actually going to do this? I mean 'scanning' the inner PCB layers?


I also ask same question...
??
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

mpattonm
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:48 pm

Good news I do not really have to xray anything. But no more spoilers.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby bishopco3 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:07 pm

Gerber files can be found at the doc archive for the Falcon(all 6 layers): https://www.dev-docs.org/docs/. This can be used as reference.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Yes, gerbers are one of my reference. Unfortunatelly, there is lots of issues within, so half of the traces need to be rechecked.
Dead-end traces, blind vias, unconnected vias,... just to name some of the issues. Plenty of unrouted tracks too in the data. And the routing? Evidence of rushed Falcon development can be observed all across the board. The pattern looks like somebody gave a 3yrs old epileptic kid a pen and let it draw random lines. And the layout...I mean data tracks _and_ VCC line going right below oscilators? Come on, Atari! At lease there is a small patch of GND connected copper in between, but still...
I think I will show some crazy looking routing here time to time.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:54 pm

Best practice: place decoupling cap as close to IC _VCC pin as possible. Atari: naaaah, lets take the mofo for ride across the board, drag it at least an inch away!
Last edited by mpattonm on Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mpattonm
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:00 pm

Best practice: keep the tracks as short as possible. Atari: how about some detour!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mikro » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:40 pm

Are you also going to change the three infamous clock routes into something more reliable? Especially the SDMA path is insanely long, unbuffered and prone to noise and signal reflections from everywhere.

Apart from some clever clock patches there's only one hardware solution I'm aware of which solves this for 100%: the CT2 has a separate wire going from the card directly to SDMA's clock input, completely bypassing the path from the Combel.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:20 pm

First I was not going to do any component re-layout, but the more dirt I dig up, the more I am inclined to do a bigger redesign.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:54 am

How about pin swap? Lets give it a little twist.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby shoggoth » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:31 am

Looks like Atari used some ancient auto-router!
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:06 pm

Possibly, but then... there is a lot of human like creativity. Such as... Picasso paintings!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby Gaiyan » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:44 pm

Geez! Atari clearly outsourced the routing to a 4-year old with an etch-a-sketch!

Lead Atari Engineer.jpg

Edit: Here you can see her hard at work.
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Image

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby dhedberg » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:05 pm

Wow. Total lack of QA and inspections of the PCB design and layout.
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo MORE.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:35 pm

Two down, four to go.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:54 pm

Incredible!

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby dhedberg » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:01 pm

Wow. You're fast!
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo MORE.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:02 pm

Whats shortest path between two points? Appearently it depends on how much crack you have just had.
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calimero
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby calimero » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:39 pm

I just thinking... Atari, Commodore... Sun, HP, SGi... were companies that imagine, develop and manufacture their own hardware and software (some even CPUs)!
Today Gigabyte, Asus or MSI have just to design motherboards within specification. They do not need (or can) to "imagine" anything new.

Is this progress?
Thanks to this "progress" everything today fall in pit of Wintel (even Apple, but thankfully they still push boundaries further over Wintel world).
If you ask Microsoft, without competition, they would still sell Windows XP in 2018.
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

arf
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby arf » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:40 pm

calimero wrote:Is this progress?
Thanks to this "progress" everything today fall in pit of Wintel (even Apple, but thankfully they still push boundaries further over Wintel world).
If you ask Microsoft, without competition, they would still sell Windows XP in 2018.


Apple is still selling their "flag-ship" workstation from 2013. Which wasn‘t faster than the one from 2010.

Which is somehow similar to the end of the Atari line.

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:42 am

True.

IPC best practice: Place the oscilator as far from any source of possible source of interference as possible, ideally on GND shielded copper spot.
Atari: Lets fck stability. Lets place some few high speed signal tracks right between the legs of an PCB unshilded XO. Not enough? Throw in a massive, hardly regulated, 12V switched mode power supply line in the mix.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby vinz6751 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:38 am

Great !!

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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby calimero » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:53 am

I see that we will get completely new, redesigned Falcon motherboard from mpattonm... :D
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

mpattonm
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Postby mpattonm » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:21 pm

Lets say... fixed motherboard with a few essential updates.


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