Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

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Rustynutt
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Rustynutt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:09 am

Being that close, maybe Brad would loan out a diagnostic cart. You really don't learn a lot from one, but unless something is totally amiss, should let the machine boot if it is indeed related to NVRAM or ROM.
If its the RST switch, the cart might be a good indicator as you "ain't going nowhere" if that's it :)

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:16 pm

Rustynutt wrote:Being that close, maybe Brad would loan out a diagnostic cart. You really don't learn a lot from one, but unless something is totally amiss, should let the machine boot if it is indeed related to NVRAM or ROM.
If its the RST switch, the cart might be a good indicator as you "ain't going nowhere" if that's it :)


Good point being so close I can imagine Brad could set you up. If Brad can't help, I have a Falcon diagnostic cart I can loan you though.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:36 pm

I have ask him for loans in the past, and he wants collateral. He wanted my 1450xld and falcon to barrow his only Atari PC1 manual so I could make copies. That is a bit steep for me.
I have been busy this week at home, and am out of town this weekend, so it will be a few days before I can get back to what you all have kindly suggested above. I do have STE and ST/Mega diagnostics carts but I'm pretty sure they will be useless on a Falcon.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby paul92706 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:52 pm

I think there is a clearer schematic somewhere, let me check my HD tonight and i will forward it to you. But first off i would definitely check that Ground Pin and Vcc pin on NVRAM chip! i will look at my schematics and tell you what pin is which. Hang in there buddy she (Falcy) not yet a goner!
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:12 pm

Ok,
Back to testing this Falcon.
I have pulled out the VMRam chip.
I used Tech Cleaner to clean out the reset switch as suggest above. But I do not know how to test it. Can I do it with a mutimeter?
I did power it up after I 'cleaned' the reset switch. I still get a black screen. I tested with both 14MB units I have, One has a LED that is lit when power is on. I also connected the keyboard for testing, It power LED is lit too. I am connected to a SC1224. No FD connected.
Where to go from here?
Oh, thanks everyone with all the above help!!!
I now have a printed copy of the VMRam section of the schematics. So I can check for damage to those traces. But from above posts those should not effect a simple boot just to check if the MB is working. rigth?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:43 pm

The ground pin on the NVRAM is stubborn, mine didn't go well. No boot after I put the socket and replaced the NV chip. I flooded the ground pin and off it went. I could see what the issue, visually, though. My next step would have been to bridge ground and buzz all the lines out using the schematics as a guide. It isn't hard, just frustrating.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:38 pm

Thanks!
I have tested resistance on traces as shown on the schematics as best I could all seemed ok. I did find that a wire had come loose from the upgrade previously done. It was on the piggyback IC from pin 2 to 15. See post 4, above for a pic. I do not know how long it was disconnected , or if it had touched other legs on that IC during all my other testing. Could this have caused and damage?
I did all the suggestions that Atari030 suggested before and after I noticed this loose wire. I got no change in system output. Just a black screen. I do recall that many upgrades on ST's need to have the keyboard attached before they work. I did so here after I reconnected the wire. I still got the power led light. but also noticed that the FD led was flashing very lightly, not very bright, but about 40% normal, for about 5 seconds, every 30 seconds.
What to go to next, and suggestions out there?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:00 am

Any help out there? I'm suck and not sure where to go from here.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:20 am

Have you tried resetting the NVRAM?

Two things that might be worth a look, the clock patch, which is the loose wire you refer too. I can't make out the IC, but it might pay to go over that and make sure it is right. How long was it before you installed the NVRAM that you last booted the Falcon? It could be PSU, but that does seem awfully coincidental.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:20 am

Patch is on post 4 of this thread on page 1. The piggy back IC says 9118AK 74FD4PC. I the loose wire, I think went from pin 2 to 15. pin 2 side was loose. That pic is not so good. It would have gone to pin 1, but pin 2 had solder on it so that is where I assumed it went.
When I first got it, I booted it. Got to the desktop. Tried to install c: on the desktop. No go, the HD sounded bad. FD worked fine. I loaded a couple programs from disk and it was fine. Then I power it down and took it apart, knowing the VMRam had to be bad after all these years. It could be the psu, but there is power going to the keyboard, and ram, and fan, so there should be something happening on screen. but I get nothing, no flash, no color change, on any monitor I use. So I agree it probably is not the psu.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Rustynutt » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:15 am

Haven't kept up with this. Have you rang out all the traces from the Timekeeper to corresponding ties on other IC's and such.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:27 am

It would be a 74F04. Have a look here;

viewtopic.php?t=16181

It might be a good idea to check voltage levels on the PSU too.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby dhedberg » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:28 pm

Have you soldered a socket in place and popped the NVRAM back again? I read that you had removed it after initial testing? I don't think the Falcon will boot with the NVRAM chip removed. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. When you solder the socket in place, make sure the solder flows well. It can be a good idea to verify the traces again from the pins of the sockets to make sure the soldering was a success.

If you've verified that all traces are intact and the computer still doesn't boot with the NVRAM chip in place, I'd recommend you to buy another Dallas chip to test with.
Also, when you power-on the Falcon030, check that you have 5V on the VCC pin.

You can also disconnect the floppy and hard drive while powering on the Falcon to give the PSU a bit of a break, just in case.
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:42 pm

Also, when you power-on the Falcon030, check that you have 5V on the VCC pin.

Where is the VCC pin?

The HD and FD have not been connected for all the testing. As noted above, I think, a falcon should boot without a anything in the vmram socket. But I am going to have to put a socket in anyway. So your suggestion of just doing it and then more trace testing I think is the best thing to do. I do have an extra falcon PSU, I'll try that too
But I'm thinking that all the testing I did, with power, while the jumper wire was disconnected, over the 74F04, could have damaged something? Y/N?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:51 pm

To mu knowledge, the Falcon will not boot without an NVRAM chip, if it is flat that is fine, but it won't post without one.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby dhedberg » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:30 pm

The VCC pin is pin 24 of the Dallas chip.

The piggy back IC is a clock buffer patch. You can verify that it is properly wired/installed on Exxos page:
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/ ... /index.htm

The installation looks a bit shaky on the picture. Whether or not the loose wire has damaged something depends on what it has been in contact with. Hard to say. You could always undo/uninstall the clock patch. The machine will boot fine without it. The purpose of the patch is just to improve issues related to SCSI and sound.
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby calimero » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:03 pm

@KLund1

I had same symptoms as you when I replace Dallas in 2012.

I send my Falcon motherboard to Rodolphe Czuba and he manage to repair it. Now I will search for emails from 2012...

This is what Rodolphe do:

"It is repaired now. I put a wire to do the line D7 back on pin #11 of the RTC modul."
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby mikro » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:50 pm

calimero wrote:"It is repaired now. I put a wire to do the line D7 back on pin #11 of the RTC modul."

In other words, the connection was destroyed by soldering. That's why other people suggest to test VCC (and other pins from the Combel etc), it's a very time consuming job.

You need Falcon schematics, the Dallas chip schematics and verify everything pin by pin.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:21 pm

Correct. And it isn't hard to buzz them all out. I think only 10 or so pins are connected.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:26 am

The piggy back IC is firmly connected by 2-sided tape. It is a bit off center, but secure in place. Nothing loose except the wire I knocked off, now fixed.
Ok, I will solder, carefully, a socket in place. I got three Dallas IC's to test with. I'll see if it boots.
If not, I'll try my other falcon psu. If still no boot, then back to checking traces again, and VCC. The NVRam has several connections to a surface mounted square IC near by, it is difficult to count leads around it. My eyes are not what they used to be. I'll manage.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:03 am

My eyesight is pretty average these days too. Exxos and a couple of others do low profile coin cell NV replacements that would suit well for docketing in a standard Falcon case. So once you get it working if you want to put it back together there are good options.

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby KLund1 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:56 pm

SUCCESS!!!
IT BOOTS!!!!!
IT LIVES, IT WILL FLY AGAIN!!!!

Now I have to remember how to do CF card partitions. I went to Jookies site
http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=266
and I can not see the CF card correctly. I get to step 8 and the Y/N windows pops up for a second and then closes with the IDE 00.00 highlighted in teh available devices window. why is IDE 01.00 not showing like it dose in device check?
I'm sure I'm doing something simple wrong.
any thoughts?
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UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby Atari030 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:50 am

The device might be set to slave, not master.

What fixed the old bird in the end?

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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby paul92706 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:56 am

Yes i'm curious to what the problem was?!
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Re: Falcon NO display after NVRam replacement

Postby mikro » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:56 am

Don't use CF cards, they more do not than do work.

What was the issue with NVRAM?


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