QWERYX on a Falcon

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FatRakoon
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QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby FatRakoon » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:15 pm

Many years ago, I bought a Qwertyx for my MegaST.

It is currently on my TT.

Works for them both just brilliantly, however, it does not work on my Falcon?

Now...

There is a small adapter, that goes from the KEYBOARD-PINS on the Motherboard, to give me that same little keyboard port, that the Mega, and the TT both have.

The adapter that I have, has just 3 pins, while the Falcons keyboard has more. ( cant be bothered to check right now, but I think it has 5 )

Is it possible, that the adapter I have needs to have more wires / pins?

Its going back a hell of a long time now, but, did I get 2 different adapters? one for the ST/e and the other for the Falcon, and Im using the ST one instead of the Falcon one? Its absolutely possible that I could simply have mislaid it as its been so long.

Its not absolutely vital of course, because I am using the original TT Keyboard on the Falcon just fine, but the Keyboard and indeed the mouse that I have on the TT, have a delicious feel to them, and they re vastly superior to the TT keyboard and this junk Atari compatible mouse.

Oh, and it might also be the reason why the USB mouse adapter thingy that I bought has never worked too! - Missing those extra pins.

Just a thought.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
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joska
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby joska » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:42 am

You need four pins - 5V, Tx, Rx and ground. If one of these is missing no keyboard will work.
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby FatRakoon » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:14 pm

Oh yeah... There IS 4 too!

Dont know why, but I always assumed it was 3?

I even went and had a peek and I still saw only 3 wires going into little block, but 4 wires, so for a second, I then was sure that 2 went to one pin, but no, there is 4 wires. 3 together then a key then the 4th.

So ok, then as I said before, but thee is 4 and so what are the other pins on the Falcons block for?

As I said, the Stock Mega/TT Keyboard works fine as does the Atari compatible mouse going through it, but the Qwertyx does NOT.

A USB Mouse adapter also does not work through the Atari mouse port either, and I assume that is the same reason?

Why is this?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby joska » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:03 am

Ok, so there are four wires to the keyboard connector, and the Mega keyboard works. Then there's nothing wrong with the adapter. Only the four wires are needed for a keyboard to work, these are the exact same signals as you find on the TT keyboard. I have no clue why the QWERTX does not work on your Falcon. Maybe a power issue? Have you tried with a different 5V source?

The other pins on the Falcon keyboard connector are not relevant for Mega/TT keyboards. There is an extra ground, a reset signal for the Falcon keyboard (TT/Mega keyboard has an onboard reset circuit and does not use this signal) and a pin for the drive activity LED which happens to be on the keyboard on Falcons and STs.
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby FatRakoon » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:43 am

Hmmm... Im confused now.
It works on the TT but not the Falcon?

Like I said though, the Falcon is using the Atari Mega Keyboard and an Atari compatible Mouse. The TT is using the Qwertyx with a nice AT Keyboard and Genius Mouse from 1340 or thereabouts, but they are flawless.

I do have a USB-MOUSE adapter and that also doesnt seem to work on the Falcon either... I have NOT tested it on the TT, however after I whined to the seller anbout getting it to work, he said that if I use a PS/2 style mouse with a PS/2 to USB adapter it will work!!! - I am in a very comfortable position of owning dozens of PC mice of all ages and specs but none ( that I have tried so far ) work in it? - maybe there is some issue with the 5v line as you suggested?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

joska
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby joska » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:26 pm

FatRakoon wrote:Hmmm... Im confused now.
It works on the TT but not the Falcon?

Like I said though, the Falcon is using the Atari Mega Keyboard and an Atari compatible Mouse. The TT is using the Qwertyx with a nice AT Keyboard and Genius Mouse from 1340 or thereabouts, but they are flawless.


As I said, I don't know why the QWERTX does not work on your Falcon, but maybe the Falcon keyboard connector can't provide enough power for it? Try to power the QWERTX from a different power source, like the floppy power cable in the Falcon.

FatRakoon wrote:I do have a USB-MOUSE adapter and that also doesnt seem to work on the Falcon either... I have NOT tested it on the TT, however after I whined to the seller anbout getting it to work, he said that if I use a PS/2 style mouse with a PS/2 to USB adapter it will work!!!


I bet it won't work on your TT either. Those "USB" adapters are not USB at all, they only work with PS/2 devices. Some USB mice supports PS/2 as well, but these are not common anymore. I guess the USB connector is used to boost sales, because that's the only sensible reason to use them. It would be much better (and honest!) to just use the PS/2 socket, that way you can atleast buy mice that you know works. There's still plenty of PS/2 mice on eBay.
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby FatRakoon » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:39 pm

Yes, agreed with the USB-PS/2 issue.

When he told me, I knew that the thing was a ploy as you said, to put USB onto it instead of PS2. Thats fine I suppose, but yeah, it would have been better to be honest, but there you go.

I have tried a fair few mice, ranging from gaming ones, all the way through to actual PS/2 mice that come with a USB adapter, but none havce worked.

Bit annoying.


Ok, you were right... I have taken the power from the floppy post and it did work.
I put a multimeter to the power lines in the keyboard and they are indeed putting out 5v, so maybe they are not spitting it out properly? Maybe the Mega keyboard is now sucking the power as much and maybe the PC / Qwertyx is?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

joska
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby joska » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:38 pm

FatRakoon wrote:all the way through to actual PS/2 mice that come with a USB adapter,


Does this mice work on a computer with real USB? If they do, then your mouse adapter is broken, because these mice should definitely work with it.

FatRakoon wrote:Ok, you were right... I have taken the power from the floppy post and it did work.


Good.

FatRakoon wrote:I put a multimeter to the power lines in the keyboard and they are indeed putting out 5v, so maybe they are not spitting it out properly?


Sounds like your Falcon just can't deliver enough power through the keyboard port for this adapter. Sounds weird though, I wouldn't expect this to draw much power at all. Maybe there's something wrong with your Falcon, or maybe the keyboard adapter. Hard to say.
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Re: QWERYX on a Falcon

Postby FatRakoon » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:15 am

joska wrote:Does this mice work on a computer with real USB? If they do, then your mouse adapter is broken, because these mice should definitely work with it.


LOL in all the messing about I have done, I have not actually checked!

joska wrote:Sounds like your Falcon just can't deliver enough power through the keyboard port for this adapter. Sounds weird though, I wouldn't expect this to draw much power at all. Maybe there's something wrong with your Falcon, or maybe the keyboard adapter. Hard to say.


I agree its odd.

I think the fact remains that when I use the normal Keyboard and mouse, the falcon works fine.
The Qwertyx too, also works fine on the TT.

Thats how they are, and I guess I just have to accept this. Im not upset, but I would of course love to use a better keyboard and mouse.
I do have a really old AlphaData Optical mouse that I have had for decades, and it worked absolutely deliciously, and never missed a beat, however, it needs its own mouse pad, and over the years, I lostthe felt from underneath and then it started to wear scratches into the mat and in the end became a bit questionable and thats when I turned to a trackerball... The one that lit up green or red also from alphadata, and then I just lost the mat... I might look out for one of those again.

Ah, memories..
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably


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