TT030 clone - is it possible ?

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AtariZoll
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:47 pm

Indeed, I can not say about %-age of SW what will not work on non-68030 CPU. The fact is that they removed some instructions like movep.
And I think that Apollo is even much less compatible.
CPU emulation on other, fast CPU is something, what should be not so hard, because we have already SW for that. I don't know is there solution for that only CPU emul. run on all cores.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:42 pm

I guess if the Falcon 040 Microbox had ever been released, that would have been the 'more serious work computer'? I do love my TT030 though, it's nice, just wish it'd had more graphic modes.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby EmpireAndrew » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:36 pm

Well it did if you bought a video card...
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leech
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:38 pm

That does bring up something.... I've contacted microlabs, and apparently they can make custom ET4000 boards, but it'd be 300 per, unless we can bulk order some. Then we could get Frank to build out some VME boards. There's a severe shortage I think of VME graphic boards for the TT030.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby penguin » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:18 pm

leech wrote:I guess if the Falcon 040 Microbox had ever been released, that would have been the 'more serious work computer'? I do love my TT030 though, it's nice, just wish it'd had more graphic modes.


It would've made the TT obsolete - better graphics, more expansion slots, faster CPU. Atari pre-announced the machine to the German press ("it's coming soon") when they were still readying the Falcon. That probably didn't help the Falcon sales.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby joska » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:16 pm

AtariZoll wrote:The fact is that they removed some instructions like movep.


Both this and the 6888x FPU instructions are emulated in software, so this is not a problem. Games and demos often has problems with the 68060, but it's not common for "serious" stuff to not work. In fact, I can't think of a single "serious" program that does not run on the 060. I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't come across any.
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leech
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:24 pm

That was always my understanding too, that anything that wasn't moved over to the 060 in hardware, was covered by some sort of 'emulation' of the earlier versions.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby 1st1 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:50 am

I would take the Falcon as a base, with Apollo 68080 FPGA processor and supervidel/SAGA graphics. And then enhanced by network, USB and so on. You can just take the Vampire V4 board and plug it onto a mATX adapter board which has the missing interfaces in 16 MB adress base. Leaving the Vampire-board (Layout) untouched, only slightly different vhdl code than Amiga version (FPU, MMU, DSP, Supervidel adapted on SAGA. That mATX adapter board then would fit in any mATX chassis. The thing to be discussed is if modified TOS 4.04 or EmuTOS should be the base-OS. And then install MiNT for modern and serious applications. (For gaming such a machine doesn not really make sense, but as long it would be 100% fully falcon compatibe it could be used for that as well)
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby nagual » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:40 pm

My 2 cent :-))

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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:57 pm

I would think Falcon as a base is a better idea as well, simply because of the updated TOS, ability of custom video modes, DSP, etc. If the bus and CPU speed of the original Falcon hadn't been handicapped, it would have made an awesome workstation system. If the software didn't utilize the DSP, the TT030 is much faster.
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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:59 pm

penguin wrote:
leech wrote:I guess if the Falcon 040 Microbox had ever been released, that would have been the 'more serious work computer'? I do love my TT030 though, it's nice, just wish it'd had more graphic modes.


It would've made the TT obsolete - better graphics, more expansion slots, faster CPU. Atari pre-announced the machine to the German press ("it's coming soon") when they were still readying the Falcon. That probably didn't help the Falcon sales.


Ah old Atari, always competing with themselves...
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (fully upgraded (soon!))
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby tenox » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:54 am

I'm down for a complete TT replica, but it would have to be an exact replica with same CPU and everything else. I want to run Atari Unix on it.

Wouldn't it be possible to do TT030 core for Suska or Mist?

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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby mfro » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:30 am

tenox wrote:I'm down for a complete TT replica, but it would have to be an exact replica with same CPU and everything else. I want to run Atari Unix on it.


IMHO, ASV Unix is a lot better suited for adaption of modern hardware than plain TOS. In the classic UNIX tradition, you have all the kernel object files available (with all symbols) and you get a proven solution for rebuilding a custom kernel. So - compared to TOS - no need for binary patching a monolithic OS to support new features, you just need to add or replace kernel object files/drivers. Once finished, you boot your new OS from disk and do not even need to fiddle with EPROMs to get it up and running.

It just needs somebody doing it ;)

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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby Eero Tamminen » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:33 pm

leech wrote:I would think Falcon as a base is a better idea as well, simply because of the updated TOS, ability of custom video modes, DSP, etc. If the bus and CPU speed of the original Falcon hadn't been handicapped, it would have made an awesome workstation system. If the software didn't utilize the DSP, the TT030 is much faster.


There's quite a lot of software that doesn't work if CPU & DSP speed ratio differs from Falcon (even in emulator that tries to emulate it), they just freeze waiting the other side.

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Re: TT030 clone - is it possible ?

Postby leech » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:56 am

Eero Tamminen wrote:
leech wrote:I would think Falcon as a base is a better idea as well, simply because of the updated TOS, ability of custom video modes, DSP, etc. If the bus and CPU speed of the original Falcon hadn't been handicapped, it would have made an awesome workstation system. If the software didn't utilize the DSP, the TT030 is much faster.


There's quite a lot of software that doesn't work if CPU & DSP speed ratio differs from Falcon (even in emulator that tries to emulate it), they just freeze waiting the other side.

That's true. I think these days a lot of that is patched, right? Some games do have an 060 version, for example.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (fully upgraded (soon!))
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)


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