Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
Bama
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Bama » Fri May 12, 2017 2:02 pm

Hello Gurus!

I have a keyboard for a mega STE. It and it's keycaps are very yellow. I like the even results from submerging the Atari plastics into a bath of Low concentration hydrogen peroxide. However when I try to submerge the key caps, they float to the surface. Which reduces the effectiveness of the hydrogen peroxide. I have removed the mylar film and the electronics from my keyboard. I would like to leave the keys attached the backboard in hopes that I will prevent them from floating. I worry the hydrogen peroxide will harm the small black contacts that complete the circuit.

Does anyone know from experience if Hydrogen peroxide will harm this part of the keyboard?

Pictures attached for clarity.

FullSizeRender 9.jpg

FullSizeRender 10.jpg


Thanks,
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
:-)
BAMA

User avatar
crashman
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 2:23 am
Location: Vilanova i la Geltrú - Barcelona
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby crashman » Fri May 12, 2017 2:13 pm

It's the photo or it seems to me that those keys are too white to be a MegaSTE grey keyboard?
260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STFM, 1040STE, 4160STE, STACY 2, MEGA ST2, MEGA ST4, MEGA STE, TT030, FALCON030, FALCON030 with Centurbo 2rB, Firebee
SH204, Megafile 30, Megafile 60, Megafile 44
SM124, SM125, SM146, SC1224, SC1435
Satandisk, Ultrasatan, HxC SD, Hxc SD Slim, NetUSBee, CosmosEX, Gotek HxC, MicroCosmos
2600VCS, LYNX, LYNX II, JAGUAR

Kubik
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Kubik » Fri May 12, 2017 2:16 pm

The easiest way is to try it on a few of them :) I have some spare keyboards, so if you destroy yours, I can send you replacements.
How strong is your H2O2?

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Greenious » Fri May 12, 2017 2:28 pm

Well....

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/138244 ... tari-case/

It does seem to make the plastic more brittle longterm, but it does work to reduce/remove yellowing.
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
Bama
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Bama » Fri May 12, 2017 3:15 pm

Thanks y'all. I've begun reading the links provided.

3% H2O2 is sold in American pharmacies for "topical use."

I am still hoping that someone else has already tried this and could share their experience. If not, then I will probably pry off the key caps and find another way to keep them submerged.
:-)
BAMA

Kubik
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Kubik » Fri May 12, 2017 7:34 pm

I recall I've done both methods - sinking the keycaps in the strongest H2O2 I could get, and using that hairdresser's foam H2O2.
My keycaps didn't float too much, but I had to turn them upside down so there were no air bubbles, and then occassionally stirring them. I wonder - if you use a container about the right size, fill it to the top and cover it with cling foil, would that work?
As for that foam H2O2 - it's PITA and really boring as you have to dip each keycap into that foam, then put it on a flat surface, but it can be done too. You MUST cover the keycaps with a cling foil, as airtight as possible, or else you might end up with so called "blooming effect".
BTW: 3% H2O2 is more or less useless. Try to get some 12%, that's the strongest you can get (at least here in Germany). Don't be too pushy when asking for it, that thing is used to make bombs and you might draw some unwanted attention :lol:

Kubik
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Kubik » Fri May 12, 2017 7:43 pm

One more thing - I've realized that some yellowing can be removed by cleaning fluid with those "nanoparticles". I recall the space bar was way too long for the bowl I have submerged the other keycaps in, so I gave it a good scrubbing, and it turned out almost as white as the other keys. Could be that some of the yellowing was actually just your old plain grime :)
This is what I am using:
Image
It's a thick liquid, almost cream consistency, and when you rub it between fingers, you feel the particles.

mzry
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby mzry » Fri May 12, 2017 8:33 pm

crashman wrote:It's the photo or it seems to me that those keys are too white to be a MegaSTE grey keyboard?


Looks identical to my TT keyboard. But didn't the TT and Mega STE have the same case and keyboard? :)

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby czietz » Fri May 12, 2017 8:40 pm

Note that these particles are usually not really "nano", they're your standard abrasive powder such as ground chalk. So maybe you physically removed the top layer of plastic that was most yellow from your space bar. I wouldn't do this to the keys that have letters/numbers/symbols on them.

User avatar
Bama
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Bama » Fri May 12, 2017 9:10 pm

mzry wrote:
crashman wrote:It's the photo or it seems to me that those keys are too white to be a MegaSTE grey keyboard?


Looks identical to my TT keyboard. But didn't the TT and Mega STE have the same case and keyboard? :)


The keyboard case is so yellow that I cannot tell if it is a TT keyboard or a Mega STE keyboard. :shrug: That being said, the lettering on the keys themselves appears to be blue or green which is different than my Mega STE.

Any options about the effects of H2O2 on the key contact pads????
:-)
BAMA

User avatar
leech
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby leech » Sun May 14, 2017 4:08 am

Bama wrote:
mzry wrote:
crashman wrote:It's the photo or it seems to me that those keys are too white to be a MegaSTE grey keyboard?


Looks identical to my TT keyboard. But didn't the TT and Mega STE have the same case and keyboard? :)


The keyboard case is so yellow that I cannot tell if it is a TT keyboard or a Mega STE keyboard. :shrug: That being said, the lettering on the keys themselves appears to be blue or green which is different than my Mega STE.

Any options about the effects of H2O2 on the key contact pads????


That's definitely a TT keyboard. I have both (though my TT's keyboard is still white (referbished from Best Electronics a while back).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (fully upgraded (soon!))
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

Rustynutt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:38 am
Location: Oregon
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Rustynutt » Sun May 14, 2017 4:39 am

Oxi Clean turned a very yellowed 1974 Husqvarna motocross rear fender to a brilliant white.
Soaked it over a couple days, in a fairly concentrated mix. Scrubbed good before hand.
Have yet to test it on the Falcon.

mpattonm
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby mpattonm » Sun May 14, 2017 5:00 am

Bama wrote:... If not, then I will probably pry off the key caps and find another way to keep them submerged.

What I do is that I use clear glass with a screw-on lid. I chose right size, so that keycaps alone fill about 2/3 of inner space and then use a liquid peroxide to fill the glass almost full. Dont expose it to direct sunlight and simply shake/stirr the glass well every hour or two. 3% solution will do just fine if you are patient. It will probably take up to 5 days tho.
Works great for me.

Boojakascha
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 6:38 am

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Boojakascha » Sun May 14, 2017 6:41 am

Just add TAED to the H2O2 then it works much more gently.

mpattonm
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby mpattonm » Sun May 14, 2017 10:33 am

Boojakascha wrote:Just add TAED to the H2O2 then it works much more gently.

Contrary to what this author says I suggest not to mix peroxide with any other chemical, keep it as pure as you can. Now TAED is a oxide process booster, I can not imagine how could it make anything "more gently".
By the way, TAED is typically powder substance, which needs higher temperature to dissolve properly and saturates the mix quickly. And if you fail to dissolve it fully, TAED particles will eventually sink on surface of your item and you will end up with visible discolored spots.

Kubik
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Kubik » Sun May 14, 2017 12:03 pm

As for adding other chemicals to H2O2 or not: according to what I have read on Wiki some time ago, H2O2 needs certain temperature to start working. Adding TAED or other chemicals might decrease the temperature needed, however, if you use sunlight as an UV source, the Sun also warms the H2O2 up, speeding the process dramatically.
In other words - if you're living in a sunny area, forget the TAED and use just H2O2. On a really hot day, check the process often.
(That might also explain differences in opinion on TAED and H2O2 concentration)

User avatar
aktiv8
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1478
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:31 pm
Location: Cardiff, South Wales

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby aktiv8 » Sun May 14, 2017 6:31 pm

Hi guys

Just to add to this from a research chemists point of view.

If you are patient then 3% peroxide will work fine, you can add something like Vanish Oxyclean to the mix (~1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon per 5 liters is plenty) to help, but it is not needed. typically the oxyclean contains sodium carbonate peroxide, which is usually heat activated and from a simplistic point of view releases hydrogen peroxide

If you wish to use a stronger solution of peroxide (eg hair dye which is up to around 10% or slightly more) then of course the for UV exposure is far less but also the stronger solutions are much more difficult to use (and if spilled on your skin turns it very white for a few days); I also wouldn't add the additives

You can also make a paste by mixing the peroxide (10% solution should be good, but 30% solutions have been used - purchase see for example http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h1009?lang=en) with glycerin and xanthan gum (both from supermarkets (eg Sainsburys) or Holland & Barret or similar stores) and again some Vanish oxyclean or similar. There are various recipes on-line for this

Overall the safest option is the very first one and just requires patience
>>> Trust me, I'm a Research Chemist.... <<<

Boojakascha
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 6:38 am

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Boojakascha » Thu May 18, 2017 8:42 pm

mpattonm wrote:
Boojakascha wrote:Just add TAED to the H2O2 then it works much more gently.

Contrary to what this author says I suggest not to mix peroxide with any other chemical, keep it as pure as you can. Now TAED is a oxide process booster, I can not imagine how could it make anything "more gently".
By the way, TAED is typically powder substance, which needs higher temperature to dissolve properly and saturates the mix quickly. And if you fail to dissolve it fully, TAED particles will eventually sink on surface of your item and you will end up with visible discolored spots.


I kindly disagree with about anything you say =) But I guess that's ok^^

mpattonm
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:52 am
Location: Czech republic
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby mpattonm » Fri May 19, 2017 12:58 pm

mpattonm wrote:
Boojakascha wrote:I kindly disagree with about anything you say =) But I guess that's ok^^

Well in that case it would be perhaps wise to explain what and why you disagree, right? Am I wrong? Cool, mind to share your opinion on which particular part of my statement you think is incorrect?
About TAED being in fact oxygen release process booster, while you claim it "would make process much more gently"?
facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraacet ... enediamine
About TAED being in most cases produced and sold as powder substance?
Perhaps something else?
Come on :)

Boojakascha
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 6:38 am

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Bath - ??Harm??

Postby Boojakascha » Fri May 19, 2017 3:25 pm

mpattonm wrote:Well in that case it would be perhaps wise to explain what and why you disagree, right? Am I wrong? Cool, mind to share your opinion on which particular part of my statement you think is incorrect?
About TAED being in fact oxygen release process booster, while you claim it "would make process much more gently"?
facts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraacet ... enediamine
About TAED being in most cases produced and sold as powder substance?
Perhaps something else?
Come on :)


1. N,N'-­(Ethan-­1,2-diyl)­bis­(N-acetyl­acetamid) acts as a catalyst. It changes the path of reaction. The new path has a lower energy of activation.
2. N,N'-­(Ethan-­1,2-diyl)­bis­(N-acetyl­acetamid) is a solid, right. Nevertheless you will dissolve an aliquot. The dissolved amount is sufficient to act its role.
3. You can not increase solubility be applying heat and cool again afterwards. As long as some solid remains oversaturated solutions will never occur.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests