WIFI for all ataris over serial!

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

WIFI for all ataris over serial!

Postby Greenious » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:05 am

(Edit: Confirmed Working! Read Thread!)

(EDit 2: Czietz did the groundwork and his guide to do it yourself can be found here:
https://www.chzsoft.de/site/hardware/co ... -internet/ )

Anyone checked out the ESP8266 and how it can be used with Ataris?

It's dirtcheap... got GND, +5V, RX, TX and uses AT commands...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESP8266-ESP-12F-ESP-12E-Serial-WIFI-Wireless-Adapter-Module-Expansion-Board-5V-For-Arduino-UNO/32806315523.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.17.HzF10w&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10068_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10171_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_10037_10182_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=65ab7d4c-912d-4da5-aefd-1ae10e1d6b62&algo_expid=da060ca4-edc2-41cc-9d70-9fbf4e7a877b-2&algo_pvid=da060ca4-edc2-41cc-9d70-9fbf4e7a877b

Should plug right into the serial port of any atari...

Sorry, you need this aswell...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESP-01-ESP8266-serial-WIFI-industry-milestone-agent-Supply/32354228582.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.96.HqDyPg&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10068_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10171_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_10037_10182_10033_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10124-10054_10033,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=c51acc9f-25cf-4ad6-9125-f80e5d9277c2&algo_expid=98aaa681-ff65-4b49-807e-bf8ae359fb1e-12&algo_pvid=98aaa681-ff65-4b49-807e-bf8ae359fb1e

Anyway, it's a complete serial wifi solution for less than $3...

I suppose all it needs is a ini file for sting? Anyone tried this?
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11990
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby wongck » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 am

It says AT commands .... so it looks like a modem ???
So to STING it looks like a modem...
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby czietz » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:15 am

First of all, I'm using an ESP8266 on my Atari for over a year now, but just to poll the network time at startup and to download files via HTTP. See e.g.
Image

Secondly, of course I have also thought about what you suggested. But it cannot be done in the way you think. For STinG to work with it, it would require PPP (or maybe SLIP) support, which the ESP8266 firmware cannot do. Even if you wrote your custom firmware for this, it would still be next to impossible to implement PPP on the ESP8266 because of the very limited network stack on that device.

And yes, the default firmware's commands start with "AT" but that's the only resemblance it has to a modem. So no, it does not look like a modem at all to STinG.

If you wanted a WiFi modem for your ST, you could go for a cheap embedded Linux board with WiFi (something like the Linkit Smart for around $10 or a Raspberry Pi 3) and install a PPP daemon there. Then it would work with STinG right out of the box. We discussed all the options in a thread on a German Atari forum a while ago (when I built my ESP8266-based module) and the opinion there -- iirc -- was that the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby mikro » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:30 am

czietz wrote:the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.

This is perhaps the most important fact -- 115200 (in best case scenario) makes literally 115200 / 10 (start+8+end bits) = 11 520 bytes per second, i.e. 11.25 KB/s. Try to browse current Internet with even 50 KB/s. Perhaps only for small (atari) ftp downloads that would be enough.

User avatar
AdamK
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:44 am

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby AdamK » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:41 am

Also, one must remember that serial port in Falcon is not buffered. So if you would like to use it with Falcon, 115200 may be unstable. Some years ago, when I was actually using Falcon serial port for internet, at 115200 it was dropping so many packets, so when I switched to 57600 it was actually faster.

If you want it for ST, it can do only 19200, and it is soooo slooow.... I'm sure TT can do 15200, but I don't know if it is buffered or not.

Solution: get CosmosEx.
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

Adam Klobukowski [adamklobukowski@gmail.com]

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11990
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby wongck » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:12 am

mikro wrote:This is perhaps the most important fact -- 115200 (in best case scenario) makes literally 115200 / 10 (start+8+end bits) = 11 520 bytes per second, i.e. 11.25 KB/s. Try to browse current Internet with even 50 KB/s. Perhaps only for small (atari) ftp downloads that would be enough.


Yes, this is true. it is worst than 2G on the phone... and 2G is already really killing.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
lp
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2257
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 pm
Location: GFA Headquarters
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby lp » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:42 pm

The solution I used was this:
http://www.dlink.com/uk/en/support/prod ... ess-bridge

Only requirement is adding an ethernet port and internet stack to your Atari. This particular unit is no longer manufactured. A more up to date equivalent can be found. The TT030 was on my lan via wifi for a few years.

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Greenious » Tue May 02, 2017 10:51 am

AdamK wrote:Also, one must remember that serial port in Falcon is not buffered. So if you would like to use it with Falcon, 115200 may be unstable. Some years ago, when I was actually using Falcon serial port for internet, at 115200 it was dropping so many packets, so when I switched to 57600 it was actually faster.

If you want it for ST, it can do only 19200, and it is soooo slooow.... I'm sure TT can do 15200, but I don't know if it is buffered or not.

Solution: get CosmosEx.


While the speed aint great it's dirt cheap. And tbh, my intentions is not websurfing on Atari with this, it's more basic stuff like FTP, IRC etc.

Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere... :) My first internetconnections were shell accounts, which worked well with my Atari at the time, however, I got a PC by the time surfing became a thing so I've never really used sting or any of the atari browsers.

And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_router/tree/master/firmware

CosmosEx is certainly a solution for one Atari, but if you got more and want to hook more up than one it quickly turns rather expensive.
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby mfro » Tue May 02, 2017 11:00 am

Greenious wrote:Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere... :)


I would assume you don't need to keep that any longer - didn't try for a long time but I wouldn't expect it to work anymore on modern digital phone networks.

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3676
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby joska » Tue May 02, 2017 11:13 am

czietz wrote:We discussed all the options in a thread on a German Atari forum a while ago (when I built my ESP8266-based module) and the opinion there -- iirc -- was that the serial port was to slow for Internet access anyway.


I have not looked at the details, but the ESP8266 modules like NodeMCU have several GPIO pins. Why not connect it to the printer port and implement MiNTnet type PLIP? I got around 100Kb/s with PLIP between my TT and Falcon back in the day, which I believe is a usable speed.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11990
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby wongck » Tue May 02, 2017 12:27 pm

Greenious wrote:Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere...


Mine was shattered to a million pieces when I accidentally down it on the floor,
The plastics had become so yellow and brittle.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby czietz » Tue May 02, 2017 4:04 pm

Greenious wrote:And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_router/tree/master/firmware


Oh, that's interesting indeed. Last time I checked, there wasn't.

If I get the firmware above to work with the max. 19200 bit/s of my ST's serial port, I'll test if it works and how stable it is. Can anyone recommend an easy tutorial to setup a basic configuration for STinG that uses SLIP?

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Greenious » Tue May 02, 2017 4:39 pm

mfro wrote:I would assume you don't need to keep that any longer - didn't try for a long time but I wouldn't expect it to work anymore on modern digital phone networks.

LOL, no, now it's pretty much useless.

wongck wrote:
Greenious wrote:Back in the days I had no problems connecting to BBS's at 57600 with an ST with hacked serial port. (I still got my USRobotics Courier v.everything stashed away somewhere...


Mine was shattered to a million pieces when I accidentally down it on the floor,
The plastics had become so yellow and brittle.


Ahemm... I just realized mine is for sale... :mrgreen:
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Greenious » Tue May 02, 2017 5:03 pm

czietz wrote:
Greenious wrote:And while PPP seem lacking with the ESP8266, there is a SLIP firmware for it.

https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_slip_router/tree/master/firmware


Oh, that's interesting indeed. Last time I checked, there wasn't.

If I get the firmware above to work with the max. 19200 bit/s of my ST's serial port, I'll test if it works and how stable it is. Can anyone recommend an easy tutorial to setup a basic configuration for STinG that uses SLIP?


Cool!

Using my google-fu, I found this thread at a german site you are likely familiar with...

http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=6368.0
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2311
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby christos » Tue May 02, 2017 6:00 pm

If you turn off images, which won't look good on an atari anyway you can browse on 10KB/s. 2G on mobiles will try to load a lot more files, such as JS, Fonts etc, which won't work on the atari anyway, so the website becomes a lot smaller than what you'd get on a modern system. Using highwire you will essentially get something like what you'll get with lynx+css.

However, browsing on an atari will always be painful, regardless of the download speed. I think rendering will take longer than downloading. I don't think browsing will be the main focus, though it could be used for software repositories or looking something up online while coding without having to use the pc.

Now if it would have been easy to have a gem based text browser where you could use the mouse to follow links etc...
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
My Atari blog

STOT Email address: stot(NoSPAM)atari(DOT)org

Faucon2001
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Brasil
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue May 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Lynx has been ported to Atari long time ago. It's a text based web browser. I'll have to dig into my old links to find out who did it.
Philippe

Firebee, Falcon, STE, Aranym Box, Hatari Pi Box.
My music http://www.philippeworld.net/
My photography http://phil-67.deviantart.com/
EasyAraMint, BeeKey and BeePi https://sites.google.com/site/emaappsarch/home

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby czietz » Tue May 02, 2017 9:27 pm

Greenious wrote:Cool!

Using my google-fu, I found this thread at a german site you are likely familiar with...

http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=6368.0


Phew! After downloading the ESP8266 toolchain, compiling it, installing it, downloading the SLIP firmware, adapting it for the Atari, compiling it and flashing it, and spending several hours for the entire process, I have a SLIP link that runs on 19200 bit/s -- with my Linux box. I simply cannot get it to work with STinG. Maybe I'm just too stupid or too tired to set it up correctly... Will try more tomorrow. PS: Thanks for the link, I'll also read it tomorrow.

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby mikro » Tue May 02, 2017 10:03 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:Lynx has been ported to Atari long time ago. It's a text based web browser. I'll have to dig into my old links to find out who did it.

Didier.

Faucon2001
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Brasil
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue May 02, 2017 11:31 pm

Of course :-)
Philippe

Firebee, Falcon, STE, Aranym Box, Hatari Pi Box.
My music http://www.philippeworld.net/
My photography http://phil-67.deviantart.com/
EasyAraMint, BeeKey and BeePi https://sites.google.com/site/emaappsarch/home

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11990
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby wongck » Tue May 02, 2017 11:32 pm

Greenious wrote:Ahemm... I just realized mine is for sale... :mrgreen:


absolutely no use for me any more. The last free dial-up was removed decades ago by the ISP providers here.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby czietz » Wed May 03, 2017 6:33 am

Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby Greenious » Wed May 03, 2017 10:08 am

czietz wrote:Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG


Awesome!

a $3 wifi solution... who would have thought that possible... :D

Only STinG left then, but SLIP is so old and I wonder if they really tested it's functionality in the last versions of STinG... might be broken. If you have no success I'll see if I can squeeze some info out of Ronald (who co-wrote it) next time I talk to him. Sadly he sold everything and completely left the scene some 10 years ago. Might be worthwhile checking documentation from stik(?), since I believe sting was derived/inspired by that previous SLIP stack...
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11990
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby wongck » Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 am

:-) getting some headway I see.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI_ATI_RTL8139 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2311
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby christos » Wed May 03, 2017 11:24 am

Greenious wrote:
czietz wrote:Woohoo, I'm in! Though for the time being with the very limited KA9Q network stack. I'll still have to figure out how to get STinG to work.

IMG_2329.JPG


Awesome!

a $3 wifi solution... who would have thought that possible... :D

Only STinG left then, but SLIP is so old and I wonder if they really tested it's functionality in the last versions of STinG... might be broken. If you have no success I'll see if I can squeeze some info out of Ronald (who co-wrote it) next time I talk to him. Sadly he sold everything and completely left the scene some 10 years ago. Might be worthwhile checking documentation from stik(?), since I believe sting was derived/inspired by that previous SLIP stack...


Slip absolutely works with Sting. I've done it with a null modem cable:
http://atariage.com/forums/blog/199/ent ... ari-to-pc/
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
My Atari blog

STOT Email address: stot(NoSPAM)atari(DOT)org

czietz
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: WIFI for all ataris?

Postby czietz » Wed May 03, 2017 5:21 pm

And now with STinG and CAB. :D I think the key was to load the HSMODEM serial drivers -- even though 19200 bit/s should also have worked right out the box, imho.
But I've already spent way too much time on this today. I'll see if I can write down some details about my setup during the following days.

IMG_2333.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests