Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

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Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:38 pm

Got asked about these boards a million times in the past, so designed one a few weeks ago. This is the "first light" of the prototype.

I spent a lot of time manually routing that board. So the GND and 5V connections are all done with copper fill for maximum stability. Each Falcon power pin is wired to the copper fill, along with the simm power pins. I've added on 100uF ceramic also.



Or those those using a crappy browser ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OptI6zeYMe8

If there is still demand for these then I will get a small run done sometime after xmas.

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:53 pm

I'd take one (price being acceptable) should the RF sheilding fit back on with one installed.

I've got a DJBase Atlantis SIMM adapter but I cannot put the RF shielding back on with it installed

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:09 pm

alexh wrote:I'd take one (price being acceptable) should the RF sheilding fit back on with one installed.

I've got a DJBase Atlantis SIMM adapter but I cannot put the RF shielding back on with it installed


Sadly I lost my sheiling many years ago so can't check. But I have a simm board which was used in my other falcon for years and pretty sure it did fit. Though I think it had some thick card glued on top as IIRC it touched the bottom of the sheiling.

The only point of reference is the keyboard pillar...

IMG_0632.JPG
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby catmando » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:37 pm

exxos wrote:
alexh wrote:I'd take one (price being acceptable) should the RF sheilding fit back on with one installed.

I've got a DJBase Atlantis SIMM adapter but I cannot put the RF shielding back on with it installed


Sadly I lost my sheiling many years ago so can't check. But I have a simm board which was used in my other falcon for years and pretty sure it did fit. Though I think it had some thick card glued on top as IIRC it touched the bottom of the sheiling.

The only point of reference is the keyboard pillar...

IMG_0632.JPG


Can measure distance when I get home.

PS. Can't see a picture in the 1st post?
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:48 pm

catmando wrote:Can measure distance when I get home.

PS. Can't see a picture in the 1st post?



There isn't a image in the first post, but there is a video.. so assume your not seeing it for some reason...

Yeah if you can measure the top of the sheiling to the top of the pillar, then should be able to make a reasonable extrapolation :)

I have a feeling this was done before for the RTC module.. but can't remember now.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:30 pm

Why are there two rows of pin-headers coming up on the top of the board? Is that for debug and won't be there on production boards?

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby fidzen » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:00 pm

Nice work exxos, I think I'm up for one also. :-)
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:07 pm

alexh wrote:Why are there two rows of pin-headers coming up on the top of the board? Is that for debug and won't be there on production boards?


Because its a test board and I was to lazy to cut them all.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby qazuio » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:12 pm

Definitely interested here, been stuck with 4mb after paying 200 quid plus to upgrade from 1meg in the 90s after discovering a 1meg Falcon is pretty much a dead loss.

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby catmando » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:55 pm

exxos wrote:
catmando wrote:Can measure distance when I get home.

PS. Can't see a picture in the 1st post?



There isn't a image in the first post, but there is a video.. so assume your not seeing it for some reason...



Video appears on mobile but not on desktop
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:00 pm

catmando wrote:Video appears on mobile but not on desktop


I'm using a desktop but shows up fine. Nothing I can really solve anyway as its down to the browser and maybe forum software.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby Ektus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:09 pm

With seamonkey 2.47 on Windows 7, there is no video either. Seems to be browser related. A working link for me is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OptI6zeYMe8
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:14 pm

Ektus wrote:With seamonkey 2.47 on Windows 7, there is no video either. Seems to be browser related. A working link for me is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OptI6zeYMe8


Shows for me in Opera, Chrome, Firefox and even internet exploder 11.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby rpineau » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:23 pm

It requires Flash .. I removed Flash a while ago .. and will never re-install it :)
The youtube link works.

HTML5 is the way to go

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby catmando » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:23 pm

exxos wrote:
alexh wrote:I'd take one (price being acceptable) should the RF sheilding fit back on with one installed.

I've got a DJBase Atlantis SIMM adapter but I cannot put the RF shielding back on with it installed


Sadly I lost my sheiling many years ago so can't check. But I have a simm board which was used in my other falcon for years and pretty sure it did fit. Though I think it had some thick card glued on top as IIRC it touched the bottom of the sheiling.

The only point of reference is the keyboard pillar...

IMG_0632.JPG


Measured mine and you have 19mm from the board to the underside of the shielding
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:28 pm

catmando wrote:Measured mine and you have 19mm from the board to the underside of the shielding


Thats the same height as the prototype, though these are using the simm sockets which I intend to fit (they are smaller) so the boards should sit lower down on the next one I build. Though the simm sockets I doubt are going to turn up until after xmas now anyway.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:13 pm

DJBase's SIMM adapter only worked with one type of SIMM. Took me ages to find one which worked

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:23 pm

alexh wrote:DJBase's SIMM adapter only worked with one type of SIMM. Took me ages to find one which worked


Can you elaborate on that at all ?

I've not head of anything like that before.. sounds odd..
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:58 pm

I had a box of perhaps 50 * 16MB 72-pin SIMMs and only ones which used 4Mx4 DRAM parts worked with the Atlantis and my Falcon 030 and not the more common 2Mx8

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 02#p251640

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:30 pm

alexh wrote:I had a box of perhaps 50 * 16MB 72-pin SIMMs and only ones which used 4Mx4 DRAM parts worked with the Atlantis and my Falcon 030 and not the more common 2Mx8

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 02#p251640


Are some of those parity simms ? what speeds work or don't work ? Could be one brand has slightly slow timings which makes them more reliable. Would need to know a chip number from and working and not working simm to see whats going on.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:26 pm

Too long ago to be sure. Maybe you can work out out from the photos?

http://atari-falcons.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... c.html?m=1

The box of SIMMs is back in the attic and I'm not going to go up there any time soon. There was a mix of EDO and FPM. The working SIMM was FPM I think. I was sure at the time they were all sub 100ns

The only common thing was SIMMS with 2Mx8 parts didn't work

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:58 pm

Not sure if falcon supports FPM... pretty sure all my simms are edo. Though I did by some 30pin FPM for the STE by mistake and they didnt work. So just assume don't work on falcon either. Maybe someone reading can clarify that..
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby alexh » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:17 am

FPM is the older type. When you're not using the EDO capabilities they are supposed to behave like FPM. I thought that the Falcon (like most classic computers) was designed for FPM but can work with EDO but doesn't use any of its features.

You can see the photo I took of the working SIMM and it clearly says FPM

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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby joska » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:51 am

The Falcon does not user neither FPM nor EDO timings, but classic DRAM timings. So it doesn't matter if you're using EDO or FPM, as long as the DRAM-chips on the module supports classic DRAM timings. You must check the datasheet to confirm that.
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Re: Falcon ST-RAM 14MB boards

Postby exxos » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:39 pm

I've found another 16MB simm, 60ns same as previous one, but different brands on the DRAM. So will leave this simm on test and see if this one acts up. This one has chips on both sides of the board.

My first 16MB simm is 8 chip, just noticed it says "system solutions" on the back, so I guess I know where that simm came from.. all so many years ago.

EDIT:

OK that didn't take long..

Passed first time then started to fail on the second pass.. The first simm I tried didn't really fail until much later.. could be as it warms up, stuff just goes out of spec enough to fail.

22.jpg


I will see if I can find a slower 16MB simm on evilbay.. and see how that pans out.
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